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The Duggars and CollegePlus - sanantone - 05-08-2013
Cyrus Wrote:Debatable.... Lots of people think it does...
I'm not saying that CP customers are dumb, but lots of people do a lot of idiotic things. The question should be would most people pay $3,000 for CP's services. The only way we could find that out is by conducting a scientific survey.
Daithi Wrote:I'm pretty much done with the CP debate --- that dead horse is starting to smell. However, I think the side debate on recent high school grads going the test out route is pretty interesting. I'm pretty much in agreement with Publius.
The advantages of being able to earn a degree cheaply and quickly are just as strong a draw to the young as the old. Every year not in school is a year you can be bringing in a real salary, and you can be earning a salary without a ton of debt sitting over your head. I also agree with his assertion that earning a BS or BA a couple years quicker than grads with whom you are competing can be an asset instead of liability in terms of finding a job. If I were hiring an entry level position, I'd be pretty impressed with an 18 or 19 year old kid who has already earned a bachelors. This goes doubly for an intern position where I have little risk in trying him out for a couple months. The way I see it is not so much that he is knocking the traditional student down (as someone else stated), but he is setting himself a apart by proving that he can accomplish a goal (earn a degree) faster and cheaper than other students. [As a side note, I actually am quite impressed with Publius. I thought he was much older. He writes and argues his position very well.]
When I really was 18 (it was a while ago) I joined the Army, because I pretty much hated school. Plus, I wanted to be a computer programmer, and I was able to get a guarantee from the Army that they would train me as a programmer. I also believed that having 4 years experience working as a computer programmer in the Army would give me an edge over people who only had degrees. I was absolutely right. The Army trained me to be a programmer; I did the exact same job as Army civilian programmers; I was just was paid a lot less than the civilian programmers. Four years later, when I got out of the Army, I had no problem finding a job, because I had lots of experience and plenty of people to use as references. It was the smartest thing I ever did.
If I were doing it all over again today, I would start testing out of college courses while I was still in high school. I'd do everything I could to earn my BS while I was still in high school. Then after I graduated I would go into the service as an officer this time around, but I'd probably go into the Navy, and I'd probably make it a career (officers make decent money and have great retirement benefits).
This kind of career appeals to me, but I'm sure it doesn't appeal to everyone. However, even if I had other career aspirations, I'd still take advantage of testing out as much as possible. If I were going for a STEM field I would try to find a college that would accept an AA or AS from one of the Big 3 so that I could get my real degree a couple years early. If I were trying to get into Med school or a big name grad school, I still might even do the Big 3 test out route followed by a year long Post Bacc program at a state university. If I were in high school and trying to get into Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, or Yale then I'd still be taking advantage of CBEs to help me standout against my peers.
First of all, I NEVER said that young people shouldn't utilize CBEs at all. If repeating high school courses is your concern, then thousands of colleges accept CLEP and AP exams directly. There is no need to try to launder them through the Big 3. That would just be more costly. Transferring an AA or AAS from the Big 3 to a STEM program at another college may or may not be a good idea. The Big 3 don't award lab credit for science exams. If the school you're transferring to doesn't give lab credit for science exams, you'd better hope and pray they offer standalone lab courses or you'll end up taking the science courses anyway.
According to Rebel100, only Harvard Extension accepts CLEP and I found this from Harvard College.
Quote:Ordinarily, credit is not granted for:Harvard College Admissions § Applying: Transfer Program
College Level Placement Exam (CLEP), Advanced Placement Exam (AP) results, or any credit earned by examination, even when credited to the studentâs degree by the college or university from which he or she wishes to transfer. Please note that credit is awarded to transfer students only for course work completed in college or university
I can't find Princeton University's policy on CLEP, but their website says that they accept AP exams and SAT II subject tests. They also don't accept transfer credits.
It was also hard to dig up clear information on Yale's CBE policy.
Quote:Credit is not granted for online courses; Advanced Placement (AP) results; International Baccalaureate (IB) results; College Level Placement Exams (CLEP); or college credits earned while you were in high school.Transfer Program | Yale College Admissions
Quote:Speaking generally, college courses that are similar to those available to Yale undergraduates are transferable. In determining the number of transferable credits, Yale does not count courses taken during high school, college credits awarded for Advanced Placement Tests, correspondence courses or the College Level Examination Program (CLEP) tests.What courses will transfer to Yale? | Yale College Admissions
But I think I read elsewhere on the website that AP tests can be used to determine advanced standing. Yale does accept community college transfers.
Cyrus Wrote:Hey. Look guys. I have noticed several times that people have called this forum FREE. It is not. I don't know about the rest of you, but I had to buy a subscription to be able to get on here. They had it locked otherwise. Couldn't view a thing. Just thought I should mention that to set people straight.
This is false. If you type in "www.degreeforum.net" in the address bar, you can view the forum without even having an account. That is the direct web address for this forum. I don't know where you're seeing that you have to pay. If you want to make an account and post, it's still free. The only locked part that requires a subscription to the IC flashcards is the Specific Feedback sub-forum and it's not even the most helpful part of this forum. All it has is feedback on what was on an exam and study materials used. Most of that information can be found on the 3 free sub-forums using the search function. All of the question answering and help with degree planning happens on the free parts of the forum.
The Duggars and CollegePlus - Westerner - 05-08-2013
sanantone Wrote:I'm not saying that CP customers are dumb, but lots of people do a lot of idiotic things.Uh...I've mentioned lots of reasons on this thread why CP works for some. Calling names doesn't help anything and only riles people. Paying for CP isn't "idiotic"; there are obviously customers who appreciate their services.
Quote: the Specific Feedback sub-forum and it's not even the most helpful part of this forum.This is off-topic but I have to say I disagree with that statement. The SEF is sometimes worth more than the flashcards IMO :coolgleam:
The Duggars and CollegePlus - sanantone - 05-08-2013
Westerner Wrote:Uh...I've mentioned lots of reasons on this thread why CP works for some. Calling names doesn't help anything and only riles people. Paying for CP isn't "idiotic"; there are obviously customers who appreciate their services.I think you need to reread what I wrote.
Quote:This is off-topic but I have to say I disagree with that statement. The SEF is sometimes worth more than the flashcards IMO :coolgleam:
I rarely use it; the flashcards have worked fine for me. But that forum is not for degree planning or question asking. You also won't find much if anything on alternative sources of credit such as ALEKS, TEEX, independent study courses, cheap community college courses, Straighterline, Penn Foster, Propero, etc.
The Duggars and CollegePlus - Westerner - 05-08-2013
I did read it. Maybe you could clarify, then, what you meant by your "idiotic things" statement. Anyway, at this point we're going back and forth about "is CP good/helpful or not?"...I think we should let consumers decide and stop trying to put an answer to the question. Or create a poll, do a scientific study, whatever
The Duggars and CollegePlus - sanantone - 05-08-2013
Westerner Wrote:I did read it. Maybe you could clarify, then, what you meant by your "idiotic things" statement. Anyway, at this point we're going back and forth about "is CP good/helpful or not?"...I think we should let consumers decide and stop trying to put an answer to the question. Or create a poll, do a scientific study, whatever
Posting a poll on here wouldn't be scientific, unfortunately. What I meant is that just because a lot of people do something, it doesn't automatically make that thing a good idea. A lot of people buy drugs, gamble, pay for prostitutes, buy expensive shoes that they're only going to wear for a few months, buy vehicles based solely on looks and then complain when they breakdown, go $100,000 into debt for some no-name liberal arts college just to get a degree in art history, spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on ugly purses, etc. I bought my purse for half off at Ross and I get compliments on it all the time.
The Duggars and CollegePlus - Daithi - 05-08-2013
Sanantone,
I never said that you said young people shouldn't utilize CBEs. I was simply making the argument that the Big 3 could be just as big an advantage to young people as they are to us older people.
Repeating high school courses also wasn't one of my concerns. Having the chance to earn a college degree while you're still in high school is just wicked cool in itself. High school moved at a glacier pace for me, and I hated it, but if I would have known that I could study college level material on my own and then take a test to get credit... well, I would have been all over that as a kid. I also can't imagine that I would have just stopped with earning a few credits either. If I could have earned an entire degree this way, I have no doubt that this would have been my goal.
In my case, I was interested in computer science, and this kind of degree is tailor made for earning on your own. However, if you have other interests, a degree from one of the Big 3 may not be the best answer. If you want to work in a STEM field (other than computer programming) then you are better off going to a traditional 4 year university. However, you can still use a school like COSC to earn your degree faster and cheaper than the traditional route. This is especially so if you go to a university that will accept your AA or AS degree. One of the problems with many universities is that they place limits on the number CBEs they will accept, but if they accept an AA or AS in whole then you can get around the limits they place on CBEs. They still may not accept some courses as meeting their prereqs because of lack of labs, but that isn't the end of the world. So, you may have to take a couple of classes over again, or you might take a few courses at a community college while earning your AA/AS, but this really isn't a big deal. The main point is that you could use one of the Big 3 to bypass about two years of college. You can get all the English, History, Humanities, and other similar courses out of the way. You can then start working on the science, technology, and engineering stuff in which you are truly interested that much quicker. You could go to a community college for the first two years, but that is just too slow for me. I'd be bored to death sitting in a history class week after week -- and I like history. I can't imagine taking a class based psychology course (if you like psychology, no offense intended).
I also hadn't intended to imply that taking CBEs was a good idea because they would be accepted for credit at Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and Princeton. Getting into these kinds of colleges is extraordinarily difficult. You pretty much need to have an unweighted 4.0 GPA, be either the valedictorian or saludictorian, have SAT scores north of 2300, and it helps if you started a food shelter, are an under represented minority, the captain of your water polo team, and have done research work trying to find a cure for cancer during your last summer break (sadly, I'm not exaggerating much). So, if you are trying to get into one of these colleges then passing CLEP and DSST tests just helps you standout from your peers. These tests are used no differently than AP tests on your academic application to the top tier schools.
The Duggars and CollegePlus - cookderosa - 05-08-2013
I'm not sure what the point of the continued arguing is? Everyone has said their opinion.
The Duggars and CollegePlus - sanantone - 05-08-2013
Daithi Wrote:I also hadn't intended to imply that taking CBEs was a good idea because they would be accepted for credit at Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and Princeton. Getting into these kinds of colleges is extraordinarily difficult. You pretty much need to have an unweighted 4.0 GPA, be either the valedictorian or saludictorian, have SAT scores north of 2300, and it helps if you started a food shelter, are an under represented minority, the captain of your water polo team, and have done research work trying to find a cure for cancer during your last summer break (sadly, I'm not exaggerating much). So, if you are trying to get into one of these colleges then passing CLEP and DSST tests just helps you standout from your peers. These tests are used no differently than AP tests on your academic application to the top tier schools.
I don't see the point in doing this when AP tests and SAT II Subject tests are used to grant advanced standing at some of these schools while CLEP and DSST are not. There is a lot of overlap in the subjects offered.
The Duggars and CollegePlus - Westerner - 05-08-2013
It depends on what your goal is. If you want the "college experience," to get into graduate school, or to go to an Ivy League school, you're free to pursue the B&M/traditional route. However, if you want your degree faster and for less, you can utilize CBEs, testing out and the Big 3 (and its not like you can't be flexible and use CC credits, transfer credits and the like at the Big 3. You can even get into graduate school with a Big 3 degree). Simple as that
And there are adults and youth who fall into both categories.sanantone Wrote:A lot of people buy drugs, gamble, pay for prostitutes,Well those first 3 things you mentioned are either illegal, or cause a lot of hurt.
sanantone Wrote:buy expensive shoes that they're only going to wear for a few months, buy vehicles based solely on looks and then complain when they breakdown, go $100,000 into debt for some no-name liberal arts college just to get a degree in art history, spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on ugly purses, etc.These things are free to do and a matter of opinion. They don't break the law. Though, I would not put paying for CP in either of these categories. Sometimes there is a genuine need for it.
sanantone Wrote:I bought my purse for half off at Ross and I get compliments on it all the time.Good for you
The Duggars and CollegePlus - Westerner - 05-08-2013
cookderosa Wrote:I'm not sure what the point of the continued arguing is? Everyone has said their opinion.Yeah, this is probably the hottest debate we've had for a while hilarious