What happened to music?

[STG]

What does today's music praise? The answer is the lawless autonomy of man. Autonomy simply means to be under nobody's authority. Lawlessness is the lack of morality. Think about it: today's music tells you to do whatever you desire (usually to seek pleasure), with no regard at all to the morality of your actions or your accountability to a higher authority.

However, this does not answer the question of why today's music is less moral than yesterday's music. The answer is simply that our culture has shifted from a more or less Biblical culture to a humanistic culture.

:iagree: ...but I'm wondering when all this immorality will end...I don't think anyone has an answer to that banghead. It just annoys me.

[bricabrac]

while we are in the 50's for those who enjoy an up tempo tune, here's a goody

YouTube - Shout! - The Isley Brothers

[skyfall123]

I miss the 50's even though I missed the 50's.

Me too...here is another Everly Brothers cover that I always liked

YouTube - Everly Brothers, Let it be me

[OE800_85]

Music just has become less subtle. If you look back at the 50's, songs could be deemed really racist, even hateful, but they did it in a subtle way. The really sad thing is that in those days these opinions were more accepted. In the past I believe we were MORE oppressed and racist, we just had larger groups with the same ideas. All the big names, Elvis, Johnny Cash, Sinatra, Bing Crosby, could all be seen as quite offensive in their days, they just hid it better.

Today you have this open culture where people have all forms of expression (yeah, a lot of them bad, but at least they have the right to express it, isn't that what we fought for?).

Maybe I'm provoking people on here (I dunno let's see what happens) but have you people seriously read the bible? It's got some pretty offensive stuff in it, in my opinion


Slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

Seems worse than what we're hearing on most songs these days.

[skybirds]

I worked in the music industry for years and heard it all.
They real turning point came with Material girl by
Madonna. Rap came into being. Usualoly music trends
Last no more than ten years. 25 years later its the same.
Greed and anger seems ro be entrenched in our society
For the long term.

[Maniac Craniac]

I'm not offended, but I do get annoyed when the Bible is taken out of its textual, social and historical context. I don't believe that you did it on purpose, but I know that many people do.
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Slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11)

Not slavery as we think of it today- certainly nothing like the African slave trade- in that specific regulations were laid down against the mistreatment of slaves. People of little means would go to work for families with better means. In exchange, they would get a place to stay, food to eat and a wage. If a family was having trouble, they could send their daughter off to someone else's house and get much needed money or other resources to return home (sorta like a signing bonus). In that culture, bearing children was the supreme honor of a woman's life, to the point where barren women would go into deep depression. However, in this instance, even if no one was to take a female slave as a wife, the arrangement was made so that she could bear children with the master of the household. It wasn't an ideal arrangement in God's eyes (as the scriptures bring out elsewhere), but it worked for the time. Slavery was a long-term labor agreement, as opposed to a horrific labor and sex trafficking ring, and was in many cases a best case scenario. Read verse 5.
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child abuse (Judges 11:29-40)

If you are one of those who believe that Jephthah offered up his daughter as a human sacrifice, then you are missing a lot of information. For one, it was explicitly condemned by God (Deuteronomy 12:31), in fact, part of the reason why Jephthah was even engaged in battle against the Ammonites was due to their disgusting practices, including human sacrifice (2 Kings 23:10). To say that he would celebrate victory against human sacrifice by actually performing human sacrifice doesn't make any sense at all.

Note that the account says that his daughter would be offered up "AS" a burnt offering, which could be interpreted in two distinct ways. Also note that to offer a burnt offering was often part of a larger ceremony of dedication, for example, if one were to give their child to God's tabernacle for lifetime service (2 Sam 1:22-28). In this case Jephtah promised to make his daughter the Lord's, which is consistent with that notion.

Other little tidbits: his daughter willingly went along with it, and in fact, convinced her father not to break his promise to God. Did she convince him that he should follow through with brutally killing her? Then she wept, not because she was about to die, but because she was a virgin, and would remain one (as one dedicated to service in the tabernacle). In the two months that she was away from her father, she had ample time to escape if what was to occur was her own death. In verse 40, the Hebrew word ta‧nah′ implies that she remained alive afterwards, for them to visit and converse with. Besides, no other mention is made of the regulation to recount her anywhere in the scriptures. It clearly wasn't a permanent regulation, so when did it end? Logically, it would end when she died, and could no longer be conversed with anymore. Again, this would not have been possible on an annual basis if she was killed by her father.
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(Isaiah 13:16) (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9)

Smashing children against rocks was something done very commonly in ancient Babylon and several other nations surrounding Israel, but not done in Israel itself. Using these words is a very powerful, poetic way to decry those very same people, but there is no account in the scriptures of either 1) God commanding his people to do something like this or 2) anyone who serves God actually doing it.
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Seems worse than what we're hearing on most songs these days.

Much of the history recorded in the Bible is a lot worse than what we are hearing in music these days, but it is not written for the purpose of entertainment, nor does it encourage to behave in such a way (any more than teaching about Nazis in school encourages them to become Nazis) If anything, it shows the huge contrast between what life is like when we choose to do things His way and what life is like we choose to do things our own way. (Jeremiah 10:23)

[OE800_85]

I expected this answer. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Essentially, just like anger toward the bible (i'm not religious but i'm also not against religion either...my brother in law is a religion teacher and we have many healthy debates) I feel is fueled by biased information, just like anger towards music. You can interpret it in many ways. Do me a favour, and listen to a couple of songs for me:

Eminem - Stan
2Pac - Changes

I think these songs provide a certain perspective, the first in defense of vulgarity in songs, and the second about the whole "gangster" culture. Hip Hop/Rap is pretty misunderstood, in my opinion, and despite its graphic nature (like the contents of the bible, no less) it still has a strong message.
The exception of course is mainstream hip hop/rap music, which, people rarely care about the lyrics, just the beat. It's a lot like comparing literature with trashy novels.

(now pop music is another story, but still worth talking about)
Another thing I want to ask...what's the difference between
Madonna - Material Girl
and
Marilyn Monroe - Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend
?

[methibosheth]

:iagree: ...but I'm wondering when all this immorality will end...I don't think anyone has an answer to that banghead. It just annoys me.

I fully believe that it will end as soon as biblical authority is reaffirmed in culture. It has happened before. Prior to the first great awakening, immorality was at a historical high. I won't bore you with the details, but all that was necessary to bring culture back to stability was to reaffirm the cultural relevance & authority of scripture. Also, I'd just like to say that I appreciate the maturity and open-mindedness on this forum. It allows us to have healthy discussion without bickering & infighting. Maniac Crainiac & 0E800 85 have demonstrated this very well

[Maniac Craniac]

I expected this answer. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Essentially, just like anger toward the bible (i'm not religious but i'm also not against religion either...my brother in law is a religion teacher and we have many healthy debates) I feel is fueled by biased information, just like anger towards music. You can interpret it in many ways.

Wow. I give you 100 points for reeling me in to make that point. :hurray:

[Ruddigore]

Music just has become less subtle. If you look back at the 50's, songs could be deemed really racist, even hateful, but they did it in a subtle way. The really sad thing is that in those days these opinions were more accepted. In the past I believe we were MORE oppressed and racist, we just had larger groups with the same ideas. All the big names, Elvis, Johnny Cash, Sinatra, Bing Crosby, could all be seen as quite offensive in their days, they just hid it better.

Today you have this open culture where people have all forms of expression (yeah, a lot of them bad, but at least they have the right to express it, isn't that what we fought for?).

Maybe I'm provoking people on here (I dunno let's see what happens) but have you people seriously read the bible? It's got some pretty offensive stuff in it, in my opinion

You are right that music is less subtle these days. If someone wants to say Thing A or Thing B, they'll say it rather than hint at it through Thing C. The immorality has always been around, it's just a bit more widespread and obvious these days.

I'm not going to add to MC's excellent post on Biblical Context. But I think it is illogical to compare the Bible to popular music. There is a huge difference between mentioning something and endorsing it.

Shall we throw aside a history book as immoral because it accurately describes, say, the (ahem) less-than-pure habits of the ancient Romans? Only recommend it to the proper age group, yes, but that the dirty facts of the past have been preserved is not in itself a crime. Same way with the Bible. Much of the Bible is history or prophecy. Sometimes immoral things happened, and sometimes terrible happenings were prophesied. The Bible is honest, sometimes brutally honest, about mankind -- but that is not the same as endorsing those evils.

The music in discussion is not merely a chronicle of impure lifestyle or a manual on how to avoid impurity. Immoral music usually encourages the sort of behavior its writers describe.

I hope that added something to this discussion!
R.