Traditional B&Ms behaving like for-profits

[Prloko]

Lately, I have been getting that itch to go back to school (I miss CLEPPING :p). I have been researching traditional B&Ms with p/t programs and B&Ms with online programs. I have contacted several programs and filled out the marketing material knowing full well someone would contact me.

What I was not expecting were the constant calls, emails and marketing material. In addition, I was not expecting these exhorbitant tuition rates. Some of the guilty culprits? I'm not talking about Scranton, or St Leo or UMUC, I'm talking George Washington U, George Mason, Carnegie Mellon, Syracuse and UNC!

George Mason for one, would call me weekly "checking in" seeing if they can help with my application. I thought for a second that they were UoP. These program as as expensive or even more expensive than the traditional full time programs, but with half the support. I have asked admin reps directly, would I have full access to the career services, and I get the "yes, but.....". Or I ask for the employment figures, and I get "well, we don't have that available, we only report the full-time statistics..." They sell the product as equal, but provide steerage class service, double talk straight out of the for profit's playbook.

Am I saying for profits are better? No! But with the high prices of these programs, there is little ROI if any.

Anyone have any similar experiences?

[sanantone]

Top 100 private universities have always been expensive. Hardly anyone pays sticker price at the very top private universities (like top 20) because of all of the scholarships and grants they offer, but they aren't really in the online undergraduate education game. Also, this aid is usually not available to online students even when these schools do offer online undergraduate programs. IIRC, the average tuition rate at non-profit, private colleges is higher than the average tuition rate at for-profit colleges. However, for-profit students tend to graduate with more debt and are more likely to default on their loans. This probably has a lot to do with for-profits having a disproportionate share of economically disadvantaged students. In-state tuition at public colleges and universities are the cheapest, on average; but, this is because they are subsidized. Out-of-state tuition rates have always been high at most public universities.
3 Facts for Students to Know About For-Profit Colleges and Student Debt - US News

[Prloko]

Top 100 private universities have always been expensive. Hardly anyone pays sticker price at the very top private universities (like top 20) because of all of the scholarships and grants they offer, but they aren't really in the online undergraduate education game. Also, this aid is usually not available to online students even when these schools do offer online undergraduate programs. IIRC, the average tuition rate at non-profit, private colleges is higher than the average tuition rate at for-profit colleges. However, for-profit students tend to graduate with more debt and are more likely to default on their loans. This probably has a lot to do with for-profits having a disproportionate share of economically disadvantaged students. In-state tuition at public colleges and universities are the cheapest, on average; but, this is because they are subsidized. Out-of-state tuition rates have always been high at most public universities.
3 Facts for Students to Know About For-Profit Colleges and Student Debt - US News

tuition is merely a part of my comment. Has anyone had any experience with B&Ms acting like for profits?

[Yanji]

What I was not expecting were the constant calls, emails and marketing material. In addition, I was not expecting these exhorbitant tuition rates. Some of the guilty culprits? I'm not talking about Scranton, or St Leo or UMUC, I'm talking George Washington U, George Mason, Carnegie Mellon, Syracuse and UNC!

I'm sure anyone affiliated with the University of Scranton would take exception to your suggestion that they're some sort of a fly-by-night school. It's one of the better Jesuit universities in the country.

I see nothing wrong with any of the so-called "for-profit behavior" you describe. Colleges have a right to recruit - at research universities (public or private), teaching is not the primary mission, but is a necessary "public duty" to disseminate knowledge and pay the bills. This isn't possible without recruiting students, and marketing is part of that. Public schools charging more to out-of-state students is also standard practice, and if you're going to have access to the same faculty, library resources and courses as full-time on-campus students, why should you pay less? External students generally don't have to pay some mandatory fees such as health and recreation fees, so you're pretty much only paying for things you can actually use. It's unreasonable to say that you deserve to get the same quality of education and the same degree as on-campus students while being handed financial shortcuts to get there. There are very real costs associated with running online programs (albeit usually somewhat less than on-campus programs) and it's long established fact at all schools that some programs subsidize others. English or Sociology programs generally charge the same or similar tuition to Business programs, but they have lower paid faculty and less required resources. Actually, running a decent online Business program should be more expensive than running an on-campus English program. Is this fair? Perhaps not, but that's reality.

[sanantone]

I've had contact with George Mason, but it was for an on ground program. They didn't bug me with phone calls. They sent me a few emails until I told them to stop. Bellevue is the only non-profit I can recall that called me repeatedly, but they fall into the SNHU and UMUC camp of nontraditional schools. Also, the calls didn't last very long. UNC sent me emails every couple of months for years until I finally clicked the unsubscribe button. That's simple to do; I was just being lazy.

In comparison, Kaplan called me a few times a week for about a month. They also periodically sent me mailings for years. After I left Colorado Technical University (for-profit), they called me once or twice a year for a few years asking if I was interested in coming back. University of Phoenix was very aggressive over the phone. The students I had at the for-profit school I taught at said that, after contacting the school for information, they called them everyday until they enrolled.

Even with high tuition rates, the top universities usually have the best ROI.

[sanantone]

I do have to say that APUS did not bother me at all. They seem to get most of their students from word-of-mouth rather than aggressive recruiting practices.

[Prloko]

I wasn't the least referring to Scranton as a fly by night school. For that matter, St Leo and UMUC are good schools in their own right. I was merely referring that these are the B&Ms that typically come to mind for their 'for-profit' recruiting and marketing. The schools themselves are good and I attended St Leo and UMUC courses on base before.

I think some people are missing the point, I never mentioned out of state tuition. I am in state for some of these and the rest are private institutions. I was referring to the increased cost for less access.

I'm also well aware that colleges need to recruit, that's beside the point.

[Prloko]

I've had contact with George Mason, but it was for an on ground program. They didn't bug me with phone calls. They sent me a few emails until I told them to stop. Bellevue is the only non-profit I can recall that called me repeatedly, but they fall into the SNHU and UMUC camp of nontraditional schools. Also, the calls didn't last very long. UNC sent me emails every couple of months for years until I finally clicked the unsubscribe button. That's simple to do; I was just being lazy.

In comparison, Kaplan called me a few times a week for about a month. They also periodically sent me mailings for years. After I left Colorado Technical University (for-profit), they called me once or twice a year for a few years asking if I was interested in coming back. University of Phoenix was very aggressive over the phone. The students I had at the for-profit school I taught at said that, after contacting the school for information, they called them everyday until they enrolled.

Even with high tuition rates, the top universities usually have the best ROI.

I agree, with a lot of what you stated. I think the biggest culprits of being called until I asked to stop was George Mason and GWU, maybe it was the particular enrollment advisors, but geez. You are right, it still wasn't nearly as bad as when I enrolled for that one UoP class, and it took a year for them to give up trying to get me to re-enroll.

[sanantone]

It's odd because some schools offer reduced rates or in-state tuition to all online students. Other schools add fees for online courses. I've heard schools argue that online programs are initially more expensive because they can cost over a million dollars to start up.

[defscarlett]

I do have to say that APUS did not bother me at all. They seem to get most of their students from word-of-mouth rather than aggressive recruiting practices.

Only their ridiculous amount of web ads. Hell I'm a student there and I get incredibly annoyed that almost every single ad on any website I go to is for APUS.