Thoughts on path to BA for drug/alcohol counselors

[studyingfortests]

Hi, folks.

In my job, I work with a lot of drug/alcohol counselors.  In CA, the SUDCC/CADC/CATC credential (same credential, we have three completely separate certifying bodies for some reason) requires only about 10 college classes. Further, two of the three certifying bodies will accept certificates from schools that have no accreditation; they are basically trade schools that provide education of highly variable quality.  The result is many students completed their drug/alcohol schooling through these schools of questionable quality, and the credits are thus unlikely to transfer to a legitimate college or university.

I am often asked about degree planning for these folks, since many want to go on to MFT/LPC/MSW graduate degrees.

Also, these counselors typically are working at very low wages (for their responsibilities) by CA standards; often $20-25/hour, so they don't have a lot of money to pay for schooling.

Finally, many of these counselors are, themselves, in recovery, which typically (but certainly not always) means they lack academic preparation, but those who are pursuing higher education do have a high degree of motivation to better themselves.

Would Sophia + Pierpoint likely be the best route to start their journey? Or UMPI?  The only concern about UMPI is it seems to have more picky general ed requirements including math and foreign language that either don't exist at TESU, or are easier to fulfill (math via CSMLearn, for example).  But the problem with TESU is that they will hae to pay the $3500 waiver, which, as I understand, cannot be covered with student loans.  Most counselors will have no way to get the $3500, and since most also work full time, they are likely to have difficulty going the full semester 15 credit route to save money that way.

Thoughts?

[bjcheung77]

Your path mentioned is a viable and workable option, take CSM, Sophia.org, etc... Pierpont BOG AAS with an emphasis of choice, ladder that up to the UMPI BAS or BLS with a minor of choice, also take the 3-4 classes that can go towards the UMPI MAOL just in case they 'choose another direction and change their mind' after completing the BAS or BLS.

[rachel83az]

I would definitely recommend a Pierpont degree to start with. It's relatively fast and affordable. From there, there are a couple of choices:

UMPI is obvious. I wouldn't necessarily recommend a BLS or BAS degree. A BLS or BAS degree is fine for someone who has a significant work history, but it's not necessarily going to be the best choice for someone with a "dubious" background. I would say a BABA or literally anything else that's not a BLS or BAS will be of infinitely more value to these people. If they intend to go on to Master's degrees, I think a BA Psych will better prepare them for Graduate-level work than a BLS/BAS degree.

Once they have their Bachelor's degrees, they can continue on to UMPI's MAOL. I'm not sure how much value such a degree will provide to these people, but it's at least relatively inexpensive.

Another inexpensive Master's degree option for students with a Christian faith would be Kairos. They have a MA Counseling and an MA Marriage & Family Therapy. Tuition is $400/month for these degrees. https://kairos.edu/tuition/ That's cheaper than UMPI, but the degrees will take longer. A UMPI MAOL can be completed in 2 or 3 sessions for a cost of $4300 or $6450. Kairos, on the other hand, is supposed to take 18-24 months. Due to the required practicums, I'm not sure if they can be completed in fewer than 12 months. That's $4800-$9600, but spread out over a longer period of time than UMPI's degree. While it costs more, it might or might not be more affordable than UMPI because some students might be able to afford $400/mo. but not a lump sum of $2150 as with UMPI.

[ss20ts]

UMPI has a BA in Psychology which would be something useful to a counselor.

[davewill]

l wouldn't let the foreign language requirement at UMPI be a problem. There are online choices, and since you're in California, community college is also an affordable way to get things like that. It's also a good way to get the RA credit that TESU requires.

As far as the 15cr term at TESU, if you use ePack courses, and plan to extend the term for the Capstone, I think that people working full time should be able to complete it.

[bjcheung77]

UMPI has a BA in Psychology which would be something useful to a counselor.

Yes, pretty much, I would even say a BAS or BLS with a minor in Psych using classes from Your Pace may be enough to get into MS Psych programs such as Walden or Masters at Kairos University.  My recommendation is to follow through with a mix/match approach of what advice has been provided, something like Pierpont BOG AAS, UMPI BAS or BLS, UMPI MAOL if they switch gears and Kairos Masters if they continue onward...

l wouldn't let the foreign language requirement at UMPI be a problem. There are online choices, and since you're in California, community college is also an affordable way to get things like that. It's also a good way to get the RA credit that TESU requires.

As far as the 15cr term at TESU, if you use ePack courses, and plan to extend the term for the Capstone, I think that people working full time should be able to complete it.

Exactly, I wouldn't let these minor obstacles such as a lab, language, or math requirement stop you from going the route of UMPI or TESU.  People need to decide for themselves which way to go, sometimes it's best to ask for advice, but the person making the final decision is yourself.  People need to gauge how well they're doing by taking alternative credits towards transfer and then decide how to complete the final residency requirements at the institution of choice.

[rachel83az]

I also agree that the lab and language requirements shouldn't be viewed as an impediment to getting a UMPI degree. We've had many students who thought they'd never be able to get a degree obtain one from UMPI. Sophia has Spanish and French for the languages. They can occasionally be frustrating to some students, but not impossible. Same with the science lab.

The hardest part for any school will be writing academic papers. But there are so many free and cheap resources out there that this shouldn't be a concern either.

[studyingfortests]

Appreciate all the input. There has been a lot of interest in this and so many folks are (to some extent needlessly) slogging through 4 years of regular college (which is more like 5 to 8, given that it's very difficult to go full time to undergrad and also work full time.)

There is a significantly increasing demand for MH services, combined with a huge shortage of mental health professionals, and apparently, several articles predict that the number of people entering the field will barely offset the number of people retiring.

The shocking thing is, in a few cases, someone has talked about the massively long path (6-8 years) they are on to reach completion of an MFT/LPC/MSW, I've explained, with enough detail to make it clear it's viable, that there are great options to shortcut the process... and very few people actually show enough interest to follow through. It's almost as though anything that requires thinking outside their rigid perceptions of how it is done is too much.

But my employer is interested in starting to provide education on options like this, so perhaps with the "blessing" of the employer, more folks will consider this sort of alternative.

[bjcheung77]

The biggest show stopper isn't actually the education itself, it's knowing how and when to start... Having your employer provide basic support would be great, if they can also provide addition assistance to get the ball rolling such as maybe an info session to get them moving forward with a Pierpont BOG AAS and walking them through Sophia.org, maybe even have study sessions so people know where they are and how each is progressing.

[Duneranger]

Appreciate all the input. There has been a lot of interest in this and so many folks are (to some extent needlessly) slogging through 4 years of regular college (which is more like 5 to 8, given that it's very difficult to go full time to undergrad and also work full time.)  

There is a significantly increasing demand for MH services, combined with a huge shortage of mental health professionals, and apparently, several articles predict that the number of people entering the field will barely offset the number of people retiring.

The shocking thing is, in a few cases, someone has talked about the massively long path (6-8 years) they are on to reach completion of an MFT/LPC/MSW, I've explained, with enough detail to make it clear it's viable, that there are great options to shortcut the process... and very few people actually show enough interest to follow through.  It's almost as though anything that requires thinking outside their rigid perceptions of how it is done is too much.

But my employer is interested in starting to provide education on options like this, so perhaps with the "blessing" of the employer, more folks will consider this sort of alternative.

It's not needless. There is a stark difference between a degree at UMPI and a degree at a traditional university. Added to the fact that I have health worked with so many dubious MH "providers/clinicians" from shoddy programs (often online), I don't think it a field to just speed through and check the box.

Just because there is a need for numbers,  it doesn't offset quality.