This Leadership Course is Torture

[SteveFoerster]

So do I - but they never do it!

Same here... my kids are like that! :mad:

[mrs.b]

So do I - but they never do it!

Johann

Right? HR/leadership teaches you how to convince them that, not only do they really want to do it, but it was their idea to begin with! To me, that is just manipulation. I cannot stand to be manipulated, and feel greasy doing that to someone else, whatever the reason or purpose.

[sanantone]

Right? HR/leadership teaches you how to convince them that, not only do they really want to do it, but it was their idea to begin with! To me, that is just manipulation. I cannot stand to be manipulated, and feel greasy doing that to someone else, whatever the reason or purpose.

We just read about someone who thinks motivation theories are manipulative and paternalistic.

[mrs.b]

We just read about someone who thinks motivation theories are manipulative and paternalistic.

Is it Jim O'Toole? I started to read one of his books (Leading Change: ...Value-Based Leadership), but quickly realized I was breaking my personal vow and put it aside for a Harlequin novel to right that personal wrong. If I thought about it, I might use it and that would re-fork the intentional fork away from HR-land. It requires far more inner reflection, then reflection about others, then reflection about a situation and how to apply the former reflections to reflect the desired outcome. Not my cup of tea, though upon reflecting on that personal observation, I did enjoy a lovely cup of Earl Grey while mindlessly paging through the replacement book.

[SteveFoerster]

Is it Jim O'Toole? I started to read one of his books (Leading Change: ...Value-Based Leadership), but quickly realized I was breaking my personal vow and put it aside for a Harlequin novel to right that personal wrong.

Wait, so two wrongs make a right?
:leaving:

[mrs.b]

Wait, so two wrongs make a right?
:leaving:

Depending on the leadership style employed at the time, yes. That was my take-away, anyway. Have I mentioned my dislike of the subject material? Maybe I skimmed too liberally.

[dposborne]

Right? HR/leadership teaches you how to convince them that, not only do they really want to do it, but it was their idea to begin with! To me, that is just manipulation. I cannot stand to be manipulated, and feel greasy doing that to someone else, whatever the reason or purpose.

Have you ever worked in a bargaining unit environment as a manager? More times than not all you really have to rely on is your persuasive/motivational abilities to get jobs done. It really takes an act of god to fire someone in the union so managers have to resort to other methods of "getting the job done through others"
I would say that knowing different techniques to motivate employees is beneficial in this situation. Also knowing when and how to use different leadership styles can be a huge plus. Different situations call for different types of direction for the team. Sometimes the non-motivated or inexperienced may need some extra guidance with a more authoritarian type of leadership, other times a simple participative style will do.

[mrs.b]

Have you ever worked in a bargaining unit environment as a manager?

Oh no. Absolutely not. I was offered a position last year through a friend of a friend, but upon learning it was a) an HR role, and b) union where my role would, indeed, include bargaining responsibilities, I could not turn it down fast enough. Not only is that not my cup of tea, I'm not up for the lengthy meetings involved in classifying what bitter beverage that might be.

[mrs.b]

It really takes an act of god to fire someone in the union so managers have to resort to other methods of "getting the job done through others"
I would say that knowing different techniques to motivate employees is beneficial in this situation. Also knowing when and how to use different leadership styles can be a huge plus. Different situations call for different types of direction for the team. Sometimes the non-motivated or inexperienced may need some extra guidance with a more authoritarian type of leadership, other times a simple participative style will do.

Eh. I've seen some union contracts. There are some that do require divine intervention to get anything done, but of what I've been able to put eyes on, they are the minority. Our non-union shop policies are modeled after some union contracts in the corporate effort to "motivate" people to realize that barrier of mgmt./employee interaction is not needed. I've had managers complain that it takes acts of God, Congress, or both to get rid of problem people, but that is not true. Managers just needs to document issues and attempts to resolve them, and therein lies the problem. Some managers are great about it, but others complain they want to get rid of someone for not doing their job (correctly) but won't do their own job to make that happen. Coaching, being firm, being a friend, bribery, begging, and similar tactics all fail to "motivate" the untouchable level to do their jobs, whereas the people under them are often cooperative if someone just makes clear what the expectations are. If I ever absolutely had to stay in HR and absolutely had to deal with a union, I'd be much better suited to work for a union, rather than on the other side of the table. But, that would require aerial pigs and blizzard conditions in Hades.

[sanantone]

Is it Jim O'Toole? I started to read one of his books (Leading Change: ...Value-Based Leadership), but quickly realized I was breaking my personal vow and put it aside for a Harlequin novel to right that personal wrong. If I thought about it, I might use it and that would re-fork the intentional fork away from HR-land. It requires far more inner reflection, then reflection about others, then reflection about a situation and how to apply the former reflections to reflect the desired outcome. Not my cup of tea, though upon reflecting on that personal observation, I did enjoy a lovely cup of Earl Grey while mindlessly paging through the replacement book.

It was Marcum. Don't know the first name.