The Final Frontier: Capstone LIB-4970 or LIB-4950 for BACS and TESU's Recent Changes

[animuscerebri]

Hi everybody,

It won't take long till I'll register for the Capstone. That's why, I did some research on both this forum and what TESU's latest syllabus requires.
The most recent forum in terms of TESU changing the capstone requirements were discussed in is this thread: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...a-of-study

On MyProgress dashboard, I can select either LIB-4950 (LA Capstone-Humanities) or LIB-4970 (LA Capstone-NS, M, CS). As I intend to get my BACS, I'd naturally enroll in LIB-4970; however, I'd like to hear from others their experiences and opinions on taking this capstone or the humanities one as BACS student. You can find its corresponding syllabus here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11AxJ...IWZRTN6fk/

According to this LIB-4970 syllabus, you need to do this:

• Online discussions (5)—20%
  
• Written assignments (4)—30% 
  
• ETS Major Field Test or Written Communication Assessment—10%    
  
• E-Proficiency Profile—5%   
  
• Capstone project (2 parts)—35%   
  • Academic research paper—25%  
    

           Oral presentation—10%

My questions are:

a) Did you study for the proctored ETS Major Field Test? 
(see its requirements here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gq8u...hGemjREXkI)
If yes, how long and which topics did you revisit? 

Background why I ask that:
I took a glance at the tasks of this ETS test, and it appeared relatively straightforward, but I'm not sure whether - contrary to the statements in this document - you don't need to study that much or at all.

The thing is when I read the topics covered in that test (see here regarding the CS fields you are tested on: https://www.ets.org/pdfs/mft/comp-sci-te...iption.pdf), the BACS syllabus does not fully prepare you for that. For example, the test questions contain topics about automata, which you usually cover in a theoretical CS class / theory of computation / formal languages / automata theory (e.g. "The figure above represents a nondeterministic finite automaton with accepting state D. Which of the following does the automaton accept?")

However, TESU does not offer any course related to Theory of Computation / Formal languages. I haven't found any ACE-based courses either. 
I have only found a course at the University of Helsinki, which I probably will take, see https://studies.helsinki.fi/courses/cour...e01c256a8b. MIT also offers an Open course (see https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-404j-theo.../readings/) in order to prepare for this part of the test.


They all basically use the same textbook by Sipser: Theory of Computation

b) What are the professors like regarding LIB-4970?

I checked the terms of LIB-4970 up to June term and only 3 professors are listed as instructors, and they seem to rotate for each term:
- Matthew Badtke
- Dr. Jelena Vucetic (see https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor/2607109)
- Dr. Denyse Lemaire-Ronveaux

I only found some info on Vucetic, but nothing on the others. Has anyone had any interaction with either of them and what their style and focus are like?

c) How much time did you invest in finding a topic before registering for it?

I have a couple of CS topics in mind and did some research, but I'm not sure how much time I should invest beforehand.

I'd appreciate any comments to this question.

d) Could any of the former BACS students who have graduated write about their experiences?

I would really appreciate it, if you could tell us what it was like from your point of view. I have some people in mind, such as bjcheung77, LevelUP, rachel83az, mariobros1985, and, of course, all others are invited to share their stories as well.

Thank you very much in advance.

[davewill]

I took the 4950 version as it was the only one then. The first couple of assignments involved writing research questions for three different topics. I went into the course with a couple of ideas, but after writing the research questions, ended up picking something different from what I thought I would. I personally don't think it's that helpful to try and "work ahead". You could do a lot of work, only to find that it either doesn't work as well as you thought, or that the mentor isn't down with your idea.

I picked something CS adjacent, but I didn't have to. It was car infotainment UI design with regard to distracted driving.

[animuscerebri]

I took the 4950 version as it was the only one then. The first couple of assignments involved writing research questions for three different topics. I went into the course with a couple of ideas, but after writing the research questions, ended up picking something different from what I thought I would. I personally don't think it's that helpful to try and "work ahead". You could do a lot of work, only to find that it either doesn't work as well as you thought, or that the mentor isn't down with your idea.

I picked something CS adjacent, but I didn't have to. It was car infotainment UI design with regard to distracted driving.

Hi @davewill,

thanks for your comment. Back then, did you have to take this test? -> proctored ETS Major Field Test

Who was your professor?

[davewill]

Hi @davewill,

thanks for your comment. Back then, did you have to take this test? -> proctored ETS Major Field Test

Who was your professor?

No, it didn't exist. They had the proficiency test, but it didn't count towards the grade, so I put no effort into it.

I took it from James Cody, who I liked a lot. I believe he is an English professor.

[AllThose299s]

I've been meaning to write about my experience but I keep going outside and enjoying the sunshine.

Question A) My experience with the ETS Major Field Test was not a positive experience; not because of the actual test but because I ran into multiple issues related to it.

I didn't study much for the ETS Major Field Test, and in hindsight, I don't think it would have helped. The ETS Major Field Test for Computer Science majors definitely focuses more on the theoretical side of things.

Needless to say, the 10% can make a dent to your grade if you don't score well on it and you are only able to schedule the test during a certain window of time; personally I would have rather scheduled to take the test within the first month of the course, however for some reason, someone decided that the best window to take the exam was when students would be stressed completing their capstone paper.

Question C) I had an idea of some topics and did some preliminary research, however I would not invest much time beforehand trying to get ahead, you'll risk burning yourself out before you actually get started. You are better off looking at the topics you have in mind and ranking them in order of "what do you want to spend about two months focused on/which seems to be the most useful or interesting topic that might be of most use for you/etc" - that way, if your mentor doesn't like your topic idea or finds a flaw with your topic, you have a fall back.

Question D) As part of the capstone you have to complete the research paper and the oral presentation, however don't be fooled thinking that you are close to being done when you've completed the written assignments as the research paper is pretty much taking your mentor's feedback and combining the last two written assignments together as making sure your research paper is solid, because your research paper also needs to include an annotated bibliography; had I noticed this small detail, I would have prepared a document upfront as I was compiling and writing my papers instead of spending the final weeks wrapping everything up.

My annotated bibliography ended up being longer than my actual research paper and while the oral presentation needs to be like 10 minutes long with 15 slides, I think mine ended up being like almost an hour with like 100 slides; but I also know that some people ended up with research papers that were 50+ pages long (before the annotated bibliography!) and I expect that their oral presentation wasn't as long as mine.

[animuscerebri]

I've been meaning to write about my experience but I keep going outside and enjoying the sunshine.

Question A) My experience with the ETS Major Field Test was not a positive experience; not because of the actual test but because I ran into multiple issues related to it.

I didn't study much for the ETS Major Field Test, and in hindsight, I don't think it would have helped. The ETS Major Field Test for Computer Science majors definitely focuses more on the theoretical side of things.

Needless to say, the 10% can make a dent to your grade if you don't score well on it and you are only able to schedule the test during a certain window of time; personally I would have rather scheduled to take the test within the first month of the course, however for some reason, someone decided that the best window to take the exam was when students would be stressed completing their capstone paper.

Question C) I had an idea of some topics and did some preliminary research, however I would not invest much time beforehand trying to get ahead, you'll risk burning yourself out before you actually get started. You are better off looking at the topics you have in mind and ranking them in order of "what do you want to spend about two months focused on/which seems to be the most useful or interesting topic that might be of most use for you/etc" - that way, if your mentor doesn't like your topic idea or finds a flaw with your topic, you have a fall back.

Question D) As part of the capstone you have to complete the research paper and the oral presentation, however don't be fooled thinking that you are close to being done when you've completed the written assignments as the research paper is pretty much taking your mentor's feedback and combining the last two written assignments together as making sure your research paper is solid, because your research paper also needs to include an annotated bibliography; had I noticed this small detail, I would have prepared a document upfront as I was compiling and writing my papers instead of spending the final weeks wrapping everything up.

My annotated bibliography ended up being longer than my actual research paper and while the oral presentation needs to be like 10 minutes long with 15 slides, I think mine ended up being like almost an hour with like 100 slides; but I also know that some people ended up with research papers that were 50+ pages long (before the annotated bibliography!) and I expect that their oral presentation wasn't as long as mine.

Thank you very much @AllThose299s,

sharing your own story really helps the overall Degreeforum community; I really appreciate that. I myself have benefited a lot from this forum, and that's why I also try to contribute with my posts, guides, and RA creds recommendations, and so forth so that others can also benefit from what I have to share.

I also encourage all others to do the same even if you did your Capstone a couple of years ago, because some of the professors are still around. Hence, please share!

I have a couple of follow-up questions, @AllThose299s:

a) Did you request to be able to do the ETS test first instead of other assignments, or did the professor (mentor) not allow you to take it first and he / she insisted on you doing the assignments first. Or was it simply not possible to take it earlier, because you had to pass the other requirements beforehand (meaning that the Capstone structure and syllabus did not allow you to take the ETS test earlier?

b) Do you mind telling me which professor you had and what he / she focused on? You can also just say what he / she focused on.

c) This is what I suspected after having read the syllabus and its implied requirements. On average, how much time did you spend on each assignment, and how much time on your thesis and how much time to prepare for your oral presentation. 

Thank you.

[AllThose299s]

a) Did you request to do the ETS test first, or did the professor (mentor) not allow you to take it earlier. Or was it simply not possible to take it earlier, because you had to pass the other requirements beforehand (meaning that the Capstone structure and syllabus did not allow you to take the ETS test earlier?

b) Do you mind telling me which professor you had and what he / she focused on? You can also just say what he / she focused on.

c) This is what I suspected after having read the syllabus and its implied requirements. On average, how much time did you spend on each assignment, and how much time on your thesis and how much time to prepare for your oral presentation. 

Thank you.

a) ETS Test invitation has to be sent before you can schedule it, so I was unable to take the ETS test earlier; where I think the E-Proficiency Profile was accessible via either Moodle or the Professor/Mentor—I can't fully recall sorry—which is part of why my experience with the ETS test wasn't positive; turns out multiple students didn't receive the invitation, I had to go back and forth with the helpdesk a few times until they finally sent me the ETS email, fast forward to the day of the ETS test and ProctorU issues (which didn't occur with the E-Proficiency Profile earlier in the week) resulted in me waiting almost 2 hours before I was able to take the test.

That being said, I had no issues with the actual people on the ProctorU side of things, it was just the exam wouldn't actually load correctly and that was 2 additional hours lost where I could have been working my paper. The ETS test interface wasn't the most intuitive either.

b) Most of my feedback was related to grammar and formatting when I included some figures within my paper. I was able to resubmit my written assignments based off feedback I received which I was grateful for. An interesting observation based off some of the feedback I received, along with feedback to other students on the discussion forum was to make sure to provide examples/explaining certain concepts or terms even if you think that they are common knowledge related to your research or your field.

c) I'm sure you've seen past posts which state that the written assignments overall end up rolling into your thesis and for the most part, I agree with that statement with the last two written assignments. I sadly can't really give you number for how long I spent on the assignments but I can tell you is the first month seems slow, you will feel like you are ahead of things with your discussion posts & research and the written assignments (which is also why I think the ETS test should have been scheduled for the first month).

After the first month is when one might start to panic, for example, while I did some preliminary research before the course and obviously more once my topic was approved, I found myself struggling trying to connect everything together, my thesis topic overlapped different directions of research so there was a lot of going down rabbit holes. If you are lucky you might not run into this issue, but you might notice in the discussion posts other students switching directions from their initial topics. In part, this is why it is recommended to try and pick a topic that isn't too broad or narrow, allowing you some flexibility when you need to pivot.

For the oral presentation, I believe you have to upload it for the final discussion posts and give feedback to other presentations. The software for the screen recording and presentation doesn't allow for edits, so I spent a good 4+ hours attempting to record my presentation without messing up, keeping it within the recommended time limit, etc, and I think I was able to cut it down to around 20 minutes after cutting a lot of details out. My recommendation is - don't aim for perfection for the oral presentation at this point, pause the recording when needed and relax.

Based off the feedback that I received is why my oral presentation ended up being around an hour long with over 100 slides (with the first 30 slides focused on defining key terms with some examples). I used the oral presentation and slides as a complement to my thesis paper, (this might have been out of the norm, so you might want to take my feedback related to the oral presentation as a grain of salt) but I probably spent maybe a day or two on the slides.... and then spent the final week doing the annotated bibliography which was a pain, and I ended up removing some content from my final thesis (so I wouldn't have to include it as part of my annotated bibliography) just because I wanted to be done with it.

[kakasahib]

Quick Question
Can you register the ETS for the test ahead of the course start? What I mean is, is if I know i am admitted and left 2 complete 6 credits with this capstone and rather than waiting for TESU to give me a voucher, i just go ahead and pay from my own pocket, register for the test, and be done with. I am not worried for paying on my pocket but time and date when can i take the test. I will lose more money to schedule during the course time rather i can register and appear before i can sign-up for the course.

"ETS Major Field Test or Written Communication Assessment—10% "

[animuscerebri]

Quick Question
Can you register the ETS for the test ahead of the course start? What I mean is, is if I know i am admitted and left 2 complete 6 credits with this capstone and rather than waiting for TESU to give me a voucher, i just go ahead and pay from my own pocket, register for the test, and be done with. I am not worried for paying on my pocket but time and date when can i take the test. I will lose more money to schedule during the course time rather i can register and appear before i can sign-up for the course.

"ETS Major Field Test or Written Communication Assessment—10%  "

I'd like to know that too, because I'd also prefer to get this test first out of the way so that you have a clear head working on your thesis. @AllThose299s, do you think it is possible?

[AllThose299s]

Quick Question
Can you register the ETS for the test ahead of the course start? What I mean is, is if I know i am admitted and left 2 complete 6 credits with this capstone and rather than waiting for TESU to give me a voucher, i just go ahead and pay from my own pocket, register for the test, and be done with. I am not worried for paying on my pocket but time and date when can i take the test. I will lose more money to schedule during the course time rather i can register and appear before i can sign-up for the course.

"ETS Major Field Test or Written Communication Assessment—10%  "

I'd like to know that too, because I'd also prefer to get this test first out of the way so that you have a clear head working on your thesis. @AllThose299s, do you think it is possible?

I have my doubts that you can register for the ETS before the actual start of the course. You can always ask the professor/mentor if it is possible to schedule the ETS early once the course actually begins. That being said, when I asked about registering for the ETS when I was taking the course, the response I received from the mentor was that the dean informed them that the exam slots would be opening within the following week or so from when I had asked—which was true—the main issue was I didn't receive the email in order to register (because the system didn't have me coded as a computer science major for some reason *shrug*) so it was more of a stressful event attempting to get registered for the exam and complete it with the window of time before the deadline of when it was due.

My advice is it doesn't hurt to ask if you can register for the ETS ahead of the due date, however if you don't receive the ETS exam link to schedule it two weeks before the due date, I would reach out to your mentor to see if they can direct you to the person to contact and if you still don't have the ETS exam link in your inbox by the week it is due, then I would definitely reach out to the helpdesk asap