The Duggars and CollegePlus

[Jonathan Whatley]

Sanantone, can we be done here? You aren't part of the homeschooling community and as such, you really don't understand it. […] this is a business model out of your frame of reference and experience. Isn't it time you just let it go?

I homeschooled.

I don't like critics being interrogated about their homeschooling background here, and I don't agree that being "part of the homeschooling community" should be a litmus test to comment – pro or con, and we've heard pro too – about the services sold to consumers by the business CollegePlus.

[Cyrus]

Hey





What do you guys think of that company....whats the name.....oh yeah, College Plus.....do they:

1. Provide a service? Yes
2. Provide a worthwhile service? Yes
3. Is it stupid to use their service? No or I wouldn't be doing it
4. Does God answer prayer...even if I paid for it? I would say yes
5. What is their refund policy? Not sure
6. DO they accept NCCRS?
7. If I graduate from CP will my major appear on the degree? Will it reflect the paid for prayers? If you work hard then it will reflect the prayers, and it should appear on the degree
8. If I don't think there is any benefit, will there still be a benefit? I wouldn't want to waste my time on something un-worthwhile. I would say, yes, there would be one, even if it is making a friend... jk... kinda. You should find benefit from CP.
9. Are these people Socialist? Not to my knowledge.. well... not any more than you and me.
10. Are these people Capitalists? Not any more than you and me.
11. Should I take all my CLEP/Dantes before signing up....or just wait till I'm all signed up? I would say, go ahead and do either.
12. If I post on page 20 of this thread will it be read in say...1 year....what about 10 years....what about 100 years? Yes, maybe, possible.
13. Is the FBI following this thread? They follow about everything, so probably.
14. Is College Plus following this thread? Not to my knowledge... only through students... I could as Brad.
15. Does College Plus know I didn't use them to finish my degree? Yes, well, they could figure that.
16. Does CP care that I didn't use them to finish my degree? Knowing them. Most likely not. They are glad to be of any help to people if they can.
17. Can I complete a second bachelors using CP? Will my major be on the diploma if I utilize CP for this second degree?To the first, yes. To the second, I have no clue.
18. If I dance in a circle will I end up where I start or start where I end up? That is a round about question, and I will not answer it...
19. What is socialization and why does my homeschooler need it? Lol...
20. Please circle yes or no

​I refuse to...

[Cyrus]

Religion and economics have been discussed ad nauseum, but there are a few other hot button topics to discuss. For instance, perhaps this serious and pressing situation of CP's existence is somehow the fault of Bush (either/any of them). Is a Bush on the Board of Directors for CP? Also, I read somewhere that CP employees eat babies. While I cannot find the reference source to link right now, you can tell it's legitimate, because on their "About Us" page, there are babies in the picture for their post-photo op barbeque.

Hey. Hey. That is going a little too far... That is getting super offensive. What does the Bible say about eating babies? What is one of the things that is most said about CP? Not the cost...
*restarts computer bug and hacking program*
Yup still working...

Basically, in this whole diatribe you're making assumptions about how CP will view this thread without any proof. The truth is that they did change their website after this thread started. CP used to list specific prices on its website.

Also, in this whole diatribe, all you're saying is that home school parents would have to do all of that anyway whether they're preparing for college or not, but they can't give their child a book that will prepare them for an AP, CLEP, or other test. You're also saying that they can't spend a couple of extra hours putting together a degree plan. Nope. It still doesn't make sense to me especially since I managed to complete a bachelor's and master's while working 40+ hours a week and helping my younger sibling put together a pre-med sequence.

CP has been working on and changing their website for close to a year now... sorry... but it is true.

sanantone... at the comment you made about scholarships (etc.) what happens when you are not high enough scoring, or do not have the time to be able to get one, or attend a full time college?

Hey, look.
I am in a family with a single mom, and four other siblings at home, and one married and out of state.
My brother works really hard, and long bad hours. We are running on an embarrassingly low income.
We have a full time farm, a huge garden, etc. and my younger sister and I are the only ones in school... my older sibling just graduate from college.
We are taking care of our grandparents, and I could go on for pages, but I wont.
How do you find time for a traditional college, or for getting a scholarship, planning a degree, researching, etc.?

CP, has been the only good answer that we have found, that leaves my over worked mom a little more time to work on something else.

I would go on with responses to comments on the last two pages, but I am out of time...

[sanantone]

Your income can't be that low if you can afford $3,000 out of pocket even if you're making payments. For families with low incomes, there is the Pell Grant that offers a maximum of $5550 a year. Many community colleges fall under that price and even some 4-year colleges. These colleges also offer online degree programs and accept CBEs, although, there is a limit on CBEs. Even with the CBE limits, that brings the already low price down significantly and knocks off at least a year of college.

[Westerner]

Your income can't be that low if you can afford $3,000 out of pocket even if you're making payments. For families with low incomes, there is the Pell Grant that offers a maximum of $5550 a year. Many community colleges fall under that price and even some 4-year colleges. These colleges also offer online degree programs and accept CBEs, although, there is a limit on CBEs. Even with the CBE limits, that brings the already low price down significantly and knocks off at least a year of college.

From my experience with fellow CPers, another big reason to get a distance learning/CBE based degree is personal—the ability to stay at home while completing it. So even if it might be cheaper to go the CC route, that won't work for some based on personal convictions.

[sanantone]

From my experience with fellow CPers, another big reason to get a distance learning/CBE based degree is personal—the ability to stay at home while completing it. So even if it might be cheaper to go the CC route, that won't work for some based on personal convictions.

As I said and you should already know, many CCs and 4-year colleges offer online degrees.

[jenniferhc]

I homeschooled.

I don't like critics being interrogated about their homeschooling background here, and I don't agree that being "part of the homeschooling community" should be a litmus test to comment – pro or con, and we've heard pro too – about the services sold to consumers by the business CollegePlus.

I did not "interrogate" sanantone. I asked for his (her?) credentials, in terms of whether or not he is qualified in some way to judge whether homeschoolers should or should not use a certain company.

Jonathan, I'm going to tell you a story.

Bob drives a Ford Econobox. He really likes his car. He worked hard to pay for it and he did quite a bit of research, determining that the Econobox is a good, solid car. One day, though, Bob is watching television and a commercial comes on. Betty Beautiful, matriarch of the famous (or infamous, take your pick) reality TV Beautiful family, is apparently the new spokesperson for the Lexus Luxevan. Bob is appalled. Why would anyone buy a Luxevan? Don't they know they could get an Econobox for less? How dare Betty Beautiful advertise for the Luxevan? Now all the gullible people out there will run out and buy a Luxevan, too, even though they don't need it. Bob decides it is his mission to make sure that doesn't happen.

Bob gets on the internet and goes to a car forum where he's well known. Many of the other members there are also Econobox drivers. Bob points out the extreme awfulness of Betty Beautiful's commercial. Some of the other forum members agree, some simply don't care, but then, oh, dear, a few actual Luxevan owners respond. They like their vehicles. Bob promptly dismisses them. They, obviously, are just employing defense mechanisms because they can't admit they wasted their money on the Luxevan when they should have bought an Econobox. They disagree with this assessment, but Bob refuses to even consider they might be happy, informed customers satisfied with their purchase, not naive fools.

And Bob is not finished. You see, during Betty Beautiful's commercial, she mentioned that one of the features she, as a mom, really likes about the Luxevan is the built in car seat. Ha! False advertising! Bob declares. You see, even though he's never driven a Luxevan personally, he's been to the Lexus website and looked at several pictures and there's not a car seat in any of them!

Well, some other posters say, you're right. That's not in the photos. It's an optional item that does cost more, but some Luxevans have them. You could always take a Luxevan out for a test drive and see for yourself. They're really clever. They fold up in the back, middle seat and when not in use, you can't even see them. If you're a mom with three kids under the age of six, having that car seat built in is a Godsend when you're trying to get all your kids into the car and buckled in and ready to head off to school. Just because Bob was unable to find a photo of one on the website, doesn't mean they aren't real or that Lexus is misleading their potential customers.

Bob doesn't care about all of that. Mom could've saved herself money by buying the Econobox and transferring the toddler's car seat back and forth between her and her husband's car. That's what Bob would do in that situation, so that's what everyone else should do, as well. Only an idiot would pay for something she doesn't need.

That's not really important anymore, anyway. Bob's got something else to focus on now. Since his initial post, Lexus Luxevan has changed their website, including the pages that detailed price. Ah! More evidence of duplicity! Luxevan is clearly monitoring this forum - after all, last year Chevrolet made some changes to their website for their Chevy Plainster after comments on this forum. Because Chevy did so, this is clear proof that Lexus is now doing the same.

And it's about this time that Jane (who does come to regret it very much) gets involved. She's an Econobox driver herself and is perfectly happy with her car. She even maintains a modest Econobox fansite. But she knows some Luxevan drivers and understands why they like their vans as much as she likes her car. After wading through pages of comments on the forum, one thing really seems to jump out at her. Bob, as far as she can tell, isn't actually a parent with young children - the target market for the Luxevan. So she ask him if he is.

No, Bob says, he is not. But even if he is one day, he will still never buy a Luxevan and only drive Econoboxes. Besides, he continues, I was child once, so I know what it's like to be a parent.

Jane tries to point out to Bob that not being a parent, he doesn't really understand everything it involves. Not being a Luxevan driver, either, means he's not really able to give a good, thorough review of it. He can tell everyone all about the Econobox, but he doesn't have the personal experience to compare the two vehicles. All he can say is the Econobox is less expensive and does the job of getting one from Point A to Point B. For him, reviewing the Luxevan is something akin to reviewing a book after only reading the back cover or a movie based solely on the trailer. Can you read a book cover or watch a movie trailer and decide the book/movie is not for you? Absolutely. But you are on very shaky ground when you go on to declare that no one should read or watch it, and further accuse the publishers/producers of hinky business practices just because the blurb/trailer didn't give an entire, detailed plot synopsis to satisfy you.

Jane also points out that next week is the annual car show in Detroit. Probably, she says, Lexus has been changing their site because of that, not because of this forum.

So? Bob says. One time Hyundai Smallcar came on to this forum to respond to our criticism of their car, too. If both Chevrolet and Hyundai came on to a forum dominated by drivers of economical cars to respond to comments about their economical cars, that must mean that Lexus would be carefully monitoring everything said on the forum, as well, because there are a few Luxevan drivers and drivers of other more expensive vehicles here, too. And because we called them out, they've changed their site.

Jane makes another effort to explain to Bob that, not being a parent who has ever dealt with small children on a daily basis, he is simply not Luxevan's target market. She also explains that he is correct, no one needs a Luxevan, but they may want one and they may find the benefits of owning one is worth the price for them. As his status as a child-free driver does not match theirs as parents of multiple children, she tries to get him to understand that probably, those parents will be more inclined to take Betty Beautiful's endorsement, coupled with positive reviews by actual Luxevan owner families, into consideration over a disparaging review by someone with no kids who has never even gotten behind the wheel of a Luxevan, much less driven one around town for a year or more. And Luxevan, knowing this as well, will probably not be much concerned with anything that has happened or been said here.

Now, some people might read Bob's review and be swayed. Jane is merely saying she believes quite a few people, on discovering that Bob has no children and has never owned or even driven a Luxevan - has in fact only ever visited the company's website and called them on the phone - will not give a lot of credit to what he has to say about Luxevans. That doesn't mean they won't read with interest anything he has to say about Econoboxes, just that they will see his lack of experience with the Luxevan as a rather large impediment to his ability to give an honest, reliable review. In Jane's opinion, Bob should stick with promoting Econoboxes and reaching out to people who could really benefit from Econobox ownership, as this is where his knowledge and experience lies. But he should also try to understand there are people in the world who want and will buy Luxevans, will be happy and loyal Luxevan customers, and that there is nothing at all wrong with that or them. This, of course, is simply Jane's opinion.

Moral(s) of the story, Jonathan?

1. If you want to take a company down, do not be surprised when satisfied customers disagree with you, and do not be surprised, when people learn you've never actually been a customer of said company, have made some false and questionable statements about the company because you failed to conduct thorough research, and have even admitted you aren't part of the company's target demographic, that few members of that demographic take you seriously in regards to your opinions on that company.

2. Also? Don't be silly enough to become a Jane in this story. You'll just be wasting your time. She, at least, openly admits she learned her lesson.

[Chebasaz]

@jenniferhc - I like well-reasoned debate, and that's simply a work of art.

[Westerner]

As I said and you should already know, many CCs and 4-year colleges offer online degrees.

You also said many of them don't accept a lot of CBEs, whereas the Big 3 do. So the Big 3 are preferable.

@Jenniferhc, I love your post! :coolgleam:

[publius2k4]

Mods!!?? Can we please close this thread!? It seems to have become counter-productive.....I feel like I'm on youtube watching a comment war..... banghead

@jenniferhc: The story of the Ford Econobox should be echoed throughout internet history...