The Dream Act

[dshlvrsn]

I haven't participated in this forum at all so forgive me for intruding but this discussion really caught my interest... I am in the US having legally immigrated. (I'm Canadian, eh.) This is a very charged topic because it's easy to pick so many examples of great people who have, seemingly, no control over their destiny. I had a long conversation with a friend whose wife is a legal immigrant from Mexico. His first question was "what law did they break by coming here?" He pointed out that unless someone was deported it's most likely that there was not a single law broken when they crossed the border.

Someone else brought up the concept of children responsible for the actions of their parents. I had a great idea for a SciFi show or a short story or something... We seem to live in a world where no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Imagine a legal system where the whole premise is based who started the chain of events that led to the crime being commited with the person who commited the act viewed as an innocent victim of circumstance. That guy who cut you off in traffic going to jail because you went home and hit your kid. It kind of ties back to a CS Lewis quote about every intreraction that we have with other people causing them to become better or worse.

People laugh at me at work but one of my motto's is that every rule creates unintended permissions. That's what I see with every one of the proposed ways of dealing with the immigration issue. A bunch of rules that create all kinds of legal nightmares.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the diversion from Humanities at 2am...

[BELLA]

this is a very touchy subject.

unfortunately a lot of people fighting the Dream Act are kinda misinformed about these kids.

these kids are not looking for a PASS.

You cannot deport all these people, how do you identify them without infringing on civil rights of other LEGAL Americans???? you need to give them a path to REVEAL themselves and become 'positive productive' active participants of society. Find a way to bring them from the shadows.

If one of these kids never has a path to citizenship and yet will not return home because of the family ties, then they could end up being one of the not-so-good members of society because they are unable to work (no social security number), maybe unable to attend college depending on state (cost an issue too) and hence miss out on higher ed which prevents them progressing. We are talking advancement of society as a whole.

I support everything legal and especially laws.

At the same time if there is a never-ending problem haunting us as a nation, we need to find ways to fix what's broken. And no it is IMPOSSIBLE to send them ALL back. How will you find them all?


Proposed terms of the Dream Act include high school completion, admission to higher Ed institution, be in good moral standing, age requirement, 5yr prior bill req, military enlistment, possible cancellation of residency if you violate terms..............

NOT really EASY...........

if we are talking responsibility, well we the great grandchildren of the first illegal immigrants, lets all go beg forgiveness from the American Indians for what we did to them. Better yet, they should just boot us out!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS folks!!!!

I live in a very diverse city and interact with many immigrants, legal and illegal. Run into them at church, local elementary school, community projects, hospitals, etc, etc, a lot of exposure.............

Let's hope we can find a middle ground.

[Maniac Craniac]

Let's hope we can find a middle ground.

I wish, but this is politics. People who look for a middle ground do not get elected. :nopity:

[bawhitsett]

I wish, but this is politics. People who look for a middle ground do not get elected. :nopity:

Yup. And problems never get solved.

[ryoder]

Here in Florida we now have much better controls over who gets a drivers license or identification card. If you are an illegal you just cannot get one.
It used to be very easy to defraud this state and its employers but now it is a little harder.
I had to go down to the dmv and prove that I am a citizen of the country and a legal resident of florida to get my new driver's license. It took hours of standing in line but I say its worth it.

The dream act is another way to justify illegal immigration. Imagine all the mexicans that will risk life and limb to cross the border knowing that as long as their kids join the military or graduate college their extended families will be the beneficiaries of chain migration.

And I dont get equating graduating college with serving in the military. College is a self serving endeavor not an act of service to the country.

I would certainly write a different dream act. If I were to do so mine would require service in the military as a combat unit and specifically forbid chain migration.

[chucksnee]

Yeah, that's a good one. Not only should people have to live with the consequences of what people did before they were born, they should also take responsibility for them. In that case, why don't we just free all parents from prison and place their children in their stead?

Well, i'll just throw slavery out there....my parents were not part of it (slavery) neither were my grands parents...but guess what....because I'm white...it's still my fault....

[Ruddigore]

Well if you are 2 yrs old, and coming from Mexico with your parents, you aren't thinking of whether or not to come into the US legally or not. As is the case with a friend of mine. The whole time she had thought she was born in the US...only to find out she was not.

She does not know Spanish either.

What her parents did was wrong...and i am not one for just giving citizenship away either, but the cases of these children brought over here at such a young age....ones who don't even know the language of their parents, it's CRUEL to send them back.

A lot of anecdotal evidence is thrown around in these debates. It's very easy to get wrapped up in what we see as the injustices of children unable to "pursue the American dream." While there is nothing wrong with this kind of evidence, it is not sufficient to decide the case one way or the other.

Is something wrong because a person transgressed knowingly? Or is something wrong because something is wrong?

Assuming the latter, then both the parents and children have transgressed against the law. The next question is, do we punish the children as severely as the parents for their (albeit unintentional) transgression. Of course not. And that's where things start getting really sticky.

On the one hand, the DREAM Act gives a lot of children the ability to become legally adopted into a culture than they are already practically a part of.

On the other hand, it opens up a door for more illegal immigration. Or at least gives a reason for people to bring their children here, to perhaps give their offspring a better chance than they had. Is there anything wrong with this motive? No, but it needs to be carried out through legal means.

The bottom line is, people need to come here legally. If we are constantly dolling out amnesty, fewer and fewer people will take our immigration laws seriously. What really needs to happen is a reform of our system for admitting legal immigrants. Right now, it's a mess of red tape -- even by our government's standards.

Anywho, my 2 cents.
R.

[Popcorn]

Interesting Discussion:

In my humble opinion (not worth a hill of beans),

We are all paying a price today, for the sins of our forefathers, whether 1 generation, or 10, and this badgering "media created and media supported" attitude may not change anytime soon. Everyone wants what they want. There is no forgiveness for anyone, even tho "we" (whomever we are), did not do, or may not claim those "horrible things" the media spurs and spins.

No matter where we look, there are breaking news feeds of someone's rights being walked on. Of course we get upset - and that sells magazines, and causes people to go to websites, and that creates instant money and jobs for more media twists, and spurs.
Are we feeding the big bad dragon (source) by our fears and righteous indignation? Me thinks Yes. Perhaps this is all we are guilty of.
What if - We believe the big bad wolf is stronger than..... we are.

What if our main challenge of The big bad wolf isn't another human, so much as Life itself.

Even if we all put on our thinking caps, to realize we are ultimately on this world together, and there is only one earth....

There are too many who just don't, or won't ever play fair. That motivation is... a driving force.

I was born here, have worked many years, and have never achieved the picture perfect American Dream, because we all have a larger foe called Life Circumstance. We have no control of how or where we were born.

Life did that, and no one else is responsible for payback, end of story, and are we actually here as an entire species, still beating each other over the heads with something that not one single one of us on this entire earth can control?

Why isn't someone telling the whole real truth?


Whatever media spin has told someone that they will reach heaven here - was way off, and if those people believed that, well, the rude awakening may be a big price they pay.


Life Circumstance gives no promises to anyone.

Regards,

Popcorn

[Maniac Craniac]

Life Circumstance gives no promises to anyone.

Mine never promised me anything, and has rarely failed to live up to its reputation as a sadist.