TESU 2nd Area of Study

[MNomadic]

I'm so glad you decided to ask the complicated questions because now I know not to start taking courses that will apply to my future psych degree. I still don't understand why you have to wait until after you finish your first degree in order to start working towards the second. 

Could you work towards one degree at TESU while working on another degree at one of the other Big 3? Like would your psych-related free electives for a history degree at school #1 apply towards a psych degree at school #2?

You CAN work towards 2 degrees at tesu simultaneously. Once you finish the requirements for both you can graduate with both are the same time using just one graduation fee. Instead of doing one after the other and having more fees.

[Merlin]

I'm so glad you decided to ask the complicated questions because now I know not to start taking courses that will apply to my future psych degree. I still don't understand why you have to wait until after you finish your first degree in order to start working towards the second. 

Could you work towards one degree at TESU while working on another degree at one of the other Big 3? Like would your psych-related free electives for a history degree at school #1 apply towards a psych degree at school #2?

If you're working towards two degrees from the same "school" to be conferred during the same graduation cycle (like a BA in History and BA in Psychology), then you don't have to wait and come back after you finish the same degree. You can do both at the same time. Coming back for the second degree only applies if you're trying to get two degrees from two different "schools" within TESU. Like a BA in Psychology at the same time as a BSBA.

While it is possible to work on two different degrees simultaneously at two different colleges, most colleges explicitly disallow it. Presumably, so people cannot double-dip on their credits. Most colleges are the same in requiring students to earn new credits between conferral of an earlier degree and any new degree, regardless of where the first degree was earned. I imagine it is part of their accreditation requirements.

[MNomadic]

Here's a question: both the BA psych and BA history degrees require: LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone. So could one capstone count for both of the degrees?

[katelynn]

Here's a question: both the BA psych and BA history degrees require: LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone. So could one capstone count for both of the degrees?

I assumed all of the degrees required a capstone course. Or maybe I'm thinking of a cornerstone, I don't know. I'm still very lost on what both of those courses are as I haven't read much on them yet.

[Merlin]

Here's a question: both the BA psych and BA history degrees require: LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone. So could one capstone count for both of the degrees?

From what I've read, if two degrees share the same capstone (which I believe also implies that they are two AOS under the same degree) then you only need to take the Capstone once.

[MNomadic]

Here's a question: both the BA psych and BA history degrees require: LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone. So could one capstone count for both of the degrees?

I assumed all of the degrees required a capstone course. Or maybe I'm thinking of a cornerstone, I don't know. I'm still very lost on what both of those courses are as I haven't read much on them yet.

Yes all the bachelor degrees require a capstone but they're not all the same capstone. There's the liberal arts capstone, current trends and analysis (for technical studies), the business capstone and the different engineering technology capstones. But I guess if 2 degrees or AOS's share the same capstone, it can count for both. I guess it's something you could check with TESU about.

[shadowgem]

This is definitely an interesting question that may need further clarification (in writing) from TESU. 

On both their website Award of Degree Policy and on page 182 of the 2018 TESU Catalog, there is no mention that a simultaneous Associates or Bachelors degree must be from the same "school" in order to be awarded within the same graduation cycle that I can discern. In fact, it simply says the 2nd degree must have either 12 (Associates) or 24 (Bachelors) "different" credits in the 2nd degree. Seems like the unrelated capstone in this instance would be part of the "different" credits. The additional/unique general education requirements as well as the separate AOS would maybe be part of those different credits. But there does not seem to be any mention of restricting this the "same school" degree program. It actually seems that if you want to do a second area of study within the same school, that you would declare a second Area of Study instead.

The policy regarding needing to bring in " 24 new" credits appears to only apply when a student returns for a 2nd degree at TESU and/or has already earned a 1st degree from a previous school. There is a similar TESU Blog Post dated July 25, 2014 that does not address simultaneous second degrees, but does state the same policy in regards to earning a 2nd degree AFTER a first degree has been earned, as well as the policy on earning a dual AOS within the same degree program. In the latter case, the author states the process is similar to declaring a double major and that since the general education requirements are the same, unlike a separate degree program where the general education requirements may not be, that the only requirement is to fulfill the 2nd AOS with no more than 9 credits being permitted to overlap both area of studies. I believe the capstone in this case would not need to be repeated either since it is essentially the same so it would not make much sense and with the allowance of 9 credits overlapping in the AOS (the capstone course falls into the AOS) this would be 3 of the overlapping credits towards your allowance of 9 max. Another example may be where you declare a dual area of study (Math/CS) and some of the math required in the AOS for the CS is also required in the AOS for the Math program..so you could double dip up to a max of 9 total credits between both programs. Anything else would need to be new.

That is the best understanding I can get reading their website, their blog, and their current catalog on this policy. I think someone here said the policies were recently changed, so I would definitely consult TESU for clarification. If this is a recent change, the policy may even depend on which catalog year you are locked into as well.

[Merlin]

This is definitely an interesting question that may need further clarification (in writing) from TESU. 

Agreed. And I stated as much, as I haven't done it myself, so I'm just regurgitating what I've read here and what I've learned from reading the cataloge. As I mentioned several times in my posts, this is all subject to TESU, so anyone who is interested in pursuing two simultaneous degrees should speak with the advisor to help plan and determine what the requirements and restrictions are.

On both their website Award of Degree Policy and on page 182 of the 2018 TESU Catalog, there is no mention that a simultaneous Associates or Bachelors degree must be from the same "school" in order to be awarded within the same graduation cycle that I can discern

I have never read this either. However, the information about how the two degrees must be from different schools is based on what I learned from the experiences of others on this forum and what has been posted previously on the subject. If you review older posts you will find this question comes up a lot and the answer is usually the same.

Of course, it could be that the policies that I'm referring to are old and no longer relevant. However, it is my assumption that they are based on how each "school" has their own rules and does things a bit differently.

It actually seems that if you want to do a second area of study within the same school, that you would declare a second Area of Study instead.

Yep, I mentioned that as well. If they are the same school and have the same capstone, then the second degree is technically a second AOS. This means that the 9 credit overlap option is available. (Assuming it is not a BSBA, that school doesn't allow any overlap in the second AOS).

The policy regarding needing to bring in " 24 new" credits appears to only apply when a student returns for a 2nd degree at TESU and/or has already earned a 1st degree from a previous school.

To clarify, you need 24 "new" credits when you come back for a second degree. But you still need 24 "different" credits if you're trying to do a second degree in the same cycle. If I suggested otherwise, that was my error. The concept of new doesn't really make sense before degree conferral anyway.

In either case, you still need 24 "different" credits in the second degree's AOS, at least as far as what I read on p182 of the catalog:

"Students who desire to have awarded in the same graduation cycle two Thomas Edison State University baccalaureate degrees may do so providing 24 credits are different in the second degree’s core/area of study."

There is a similar requirement on multiple associates degrees require at least 12 different credits.

There is a similar TESU Blog Post dated July 25, 2014 that does not address simultaneous second degrees, but does state the same policy in regards to earning a 2nd degree AFTER a first degree has been earned, as well as the policy on earning a dual AOS within the same degree program.

In the latter case, the author states the process is similar to declaring a double major and that since the general education requirements are the same, unlike a separate degree program where the general education requirements may not be, that the only requirement is to fulfill the 2nd AOS with no more than 9 credits being permitted to overlap both area of studies. I believe the capstone in this case would not need to be repeated either since it is essentially the same so it would not make much sense and with the allowance of 9 credits overlapping in the AOS (the capstone course falls into the AOS) this would be 3 of the overlapping credits towards your allowance of 9 max. Another example may be where you declare a dual area of study (Math/CS) and some of the math required in the AOS for the CS is also required in the AOS for the Math program..so you could double dip up to a max of 9 total credits between both programs. Anything else would need to be new.

This is effectively the same thing that I said. You need at least 24 credits that are different in the second AOS, though up to 9 of your existing credits can overlap in the AOS.

However, my question here is what happens if your AOS requires more than 24 credits? If you only need 24 new/different credits, does that mean that as long as you meet the 24 credit requirement, anything else may overlap, or that only 9 credits may overlap and you may need more than 24 different/new credits? The catalog isn't clear on this.

[shadowgem]

My understanding is that if the degrees you are seeking (for example a BA in History and a BA in Psychology) are within the same school..you declare a 2nd AOS, as opposed to a 2nd degree. In this case you may have 9 credits that overlap and presumably 3 of those are used up with the capstone since it is the same. Your are awarded one degree with 2 AOS similar to a double major. 

On the other hand if you are seeking an degree from a separate school (for example a BA in History and a BS in Data Science) that you would need to declare a 2nd degree and bring in 24 completely different credits for each AOS as well as meet any other unique General Education requirements. In this case part of the 24 completely different credits would include completing a separate capstone. If you can manage to do this, than it may be possible to earn a 2nd degree simultaneously in the same graduation cycle, from 2 different schools. 

If you have already earned a first degree from any school TESU or otherwise, than you must earn 24 New credits AFTER the conferral of the first degree. In other words new seems to be an important distinction in this instance and not the same as different. For example, I may of already earned credits that could not be applied to my first degree and in this case they also could not be applied to second degree since I did not 1)declare a double major or 2)use them simultaneously. In other words the date I earn these "new credits" must occur after my first degree has conferred. In contrast "different credits" could be earned simultaneously and applied to a second simultaneous degree. So that is my understanding of the distinction between new vs different credits. If you don't plan on graduating in the same cycle then you may need to be very careful what credits you earn until after your first degree is conferred, which is important to note depending on your plan.

In any of the cases, it appears that you need to "at least..."  "..complete a minimum of" 24 different/new credits towards the new AOS/Core. So if you need more, than you need more I think unfortunately lol. This is clarified in their 2018-2019 catalog as well on page 182-183. 

We actually have a question on this exact issue pending with TESU advising, but are awaiting the official evaluation of credits to be completed to hopefully get clarification. This is after it was advised to me personally by members on this forum that it may be possible for my husband to do just that..earn 2 different degrees from 2 separate schools at TESU simultaneously which raised the similar questions as the OP presented.

I had already read all of the related discussions on the forums discussing the same issue myself just last week. This is why I took the time to read every recent written policy of TESUs that I could find and share it here. I also wanted to be better prepared to have this discussion with advising as well when we hear back from them. I just wanted to share that in my research I could not find any written policy forbidding the earning of 2 degrees simultaneously from 2 separate schools at TESU, so it may of changed/be possible. That doesn't mean its possible or allowed, so much as it means I can not find anything that states (other than some older posts here) that it may not be possible. When I asked the forum myself for advice, it became clear, that TESU did just recently change some policies that were in place before and that what I had researched on the forums (saying it was not possible in the past) may be outdated. I'll be sure to let you all know whatever I find out once I hear back from TESU.

[Merlin]

My understanding is that if the degrees you are seeking (for example a BA in History and a BA in Psychology) are within the same school..you declare a 2nd AOS, as opposed to a 2nd degree. In this case you may have 9 credits that overlap and presumably 3 of those are used up with the capstone since it is the same. Your are awarded one degree with 2 AOS similar to a double major. 

On the other hand if you are seeking an degree from a separate school (for example a BA in History and a BS in Data Science) that you would need to declare a 2nd degree and bring in 24 completely different credits for each AOS as well as meet any other unique General Education requirements. In this case part of the 24 completely different credits would include completing a separate capstone. If you can manage to do this, than it may be possible to earn a 2nd degree simultaneously in the same graduation cycle, from 2 different schools. 

If you have already earned a first degree from any school TESU or otherwise, than you must earn 24 New credits AFTER the conferral of the first degree. In other words new seems to be an important distinction in this instance and not the same as different. For example, I may of already earned credits that could not be applied to my first degree and in this case they also could not be applied to second degree since I did not 1)declare a double major or 2)use them simultaneously. In other words the date I earn these "new credits" must occur after my first degree has conferred. In contrast "different credits" could be earned simultaneously and applied to a second simultaneous degree. So that is my understanding of the distinction between new vs different credits. If you don't plan on graduating in the same cycle then you may need to be very careful what credits you earn until after your first degree is conferred, which is important to note depending on your plan.

In any of the cases, it appears that you need to "at least..."  "..complete a minimum of" 24 different/new credits towards the new AOS/Core. So if you need more, than you need more I think unfortunately lol. This is clarified in their 2018-2019 catalog as well on page 182-183. 

We actually have a question on this exact issue pending with TESU advising, but are awaiting the official evaluation of credits to be completed to hopefully get clarification. This is after it was advised to me personally by members on this forum that it may be possible for my husband to do just that..earn 2 different degrees from 2 separate schools at TESU simultaneously which raised the similar questions as the OP presented.

I had already read all of the related discussions on the forums discussing the same issue myself just last week. This is why I took the time to read every recent written policy of TESUs that I could find and share it here. I also wanted to be better prepared to have this discussion with advising as well when we hear back from them. I just wanted to share that in my research I could not find any written policy forbidding the earning of 2 degrees simultaneously from 2 separate schools at TESU, so it may of changed/be possible. That doesn't mean its possible or allowed, so much as it means I can not find anything that states (other than some older posts here) that it may not be possible. When I asked the forum myself for advice, it became clear, that TESU did just recently change some policies that were in place before and that what I had researched on the forums (saying it was not possible in the past) may be outdated. I'll be sure to let you all know whatever I find out once I hear back from TESU.

Sounds good. I'm curious to know what TESU says, as I was originally investigating this for myself earlier in the year but once I discovered the two school conflict I gave up on the idea.