Can you get into an MBA program with a degree from the big 3?

[JohnnyHeck]

DegreeEric, thanks for honestly posting your details. It will make it a lot easier for us to give you help you can use.

First, I can tell you are chomping at the bit to get started and there is no reason that you can't except you will want to do it in a way that keeps as many options open as possible. Also, you have to become familiar with the different nuances amongst the Big 3. Here's a way to kill two birds with one stone. Downlaod all the catalogs (Liberal Arts and Business if seperate) from each of the Big 3 and check out all of their Gen-Ed (core Liberal Arts) requirements and find the common CLEP tests that matches all. (I think ther's is at least 6 the last time I did this) Get going on these CLEPS while you continue to work on the what steps to take next Note: TESC catalog changes July 1, but it will align more closely with COSC's so there's no harm here. Stop thinking about racking up FEMA free elective credits. You've got to get going on the core! You need to find out pronto whether you can handle the underlying premise of any 14 month plan which is: can you handle the pace? When you have these CLEPs identified, you will certainly probably want to check back here to find the best way to prepare for them.

Second, you seriously need to take Taylor's warning post about the difficulty of getting into the MBA at SDSU because of all the competition. You shouldn't just guess or rely on rumor. The statistics - at least the median values for GMAT and GPA and maybe much more - for last January's incoming class should be available somewhere as this is a public institution. Find it online or email the registrar or help desk to get pointed to it. Whatever you find here, which might even include things like undergraduate degree or even alma mater, could be of imense value to mapping out your overall strategy for success.

Potpourii Observations: California schools set strict limits on CBE options. E.g. CC's allow up to 30 CLEP/AP/IB and even DSSTs for terminating AA/AS degrees. But State Us won't take DSSTs for transfer credit and U of C won't even accept CLEP for credits, just advanced placement! The system also cautions you against CBE for the "Golden Four" core Gen-Ed reqs. Now whether this bias spills over when reviewing your record for MBA acceptance, it's hard to know. We do know that 700+ GMAT with a 3.25 GPA would be pretty much a slam dunk acceptance no matter what. But what about a just above average GMAT and minimally acceptable GPA? I think to give yourself the best chance here will take some careful forethought and proper planning. E.g. The suggestion for an academic background in a quantitative discipline should be taken as mandatory for this circumstance.

Now a few thoughts on the Big 3:
None of the Big 3 will allow a D grade in your major. So if your dgree is going to be Business, I'm pretty sure you'll have to repeat Financial Accounting (side benefit: substituting an A for a D does wonders for GPA).
EC has the lowest quantity reqs for Gen-Ed, has the most online courses that have 8 week completion schedules, will give you grades for many DSSTs and their own ECEs (although as Sanantone has pointed out, CBE credit is pointed out as such, but it still is calculated into ECs overall GPA) EC also has a unique "Academic Forgiveness" policy which allows you within the first 30 days of your enrollment to ask that courses that are not going to be used for your planned degree to be stripped from the EC records. This could be great window dressing for a checkered past if the grad school doesn't absolutely demand transcripts from all instituions previously attended! EC accepts no D grades in transfer and does have a 30 UL, upper level, course credit req.
TESC has only an 18 hr UL credit requirment, takes the most FEMA and TEEX credits for free electives, and will take D grades outside the major, Although classes can be started every month, the term is 12 weeks. This is a definite negative for those of us who work best focusing on a few at time fast! As of right now TESC has no other institution specfic course reqs. outside of the capstone. TESC actually awards UL credit for some CC courses, but the crossover methodology is so quirky, you don't know about it till you get your initial eval.
COSC is very unique in that all its degree's are titled General Studies, but they do have the most varied 30 hr "concentrations" which are named on your transcript. As Rebel100 pointed out this gives you a lot of flexiblity if you don't want to take say a full BSBA program. You do need 30 ULs but only 15 in the concentration and will even take a D- outside the "major". COSC has a couple of CBE options that the others don't. It has the lowest $/credit-hr for it's own classes. It has many 8 week course terms and even a few 5 week terms. COSC also appears very proud of having many of their students go on to graduate school. So proud they publish the list of schools! Since they are know as being the most advising friendly, COSC is probably the school that will actually take the time to at least try to help you figure out how to get into your MBA program of choice.

Final thought for now: There's no rush to enroll anywhere yet. Get Gen-Ed CLEPping, thinking, and planning for now!

[rebel100]

Johnnyheck.....best post of the month dude!

[rebel100]

Well other than marriannes news!

[sanantone]

I boosted my GPA by taking courses online at a community college. The Big 3 are rather expensive when it comes to taking a lot of courses, especially EC and COSC. Granted, EC and COSC give grades for some CBEs, but it's rather risky to depend on those to boost your GPA. Just imagine if you took a course and your whole grade was based off of one test. By the way, TESC's BSBA has no capstone.

[JohnnyHeck]

Thanks for the reminder about the TESC BSBA capstone. Do you think this might change with the new catalog? I do remember you pointing this out before, but I tend to forget detailed specifics about any of the business degrees since so many others on this Forum have lot's more experience in this area, so I don't try to duplicate. No doubt about it that you are right about the $ value of a CC. But DegreeEric sounds like a man in a hurry who can't make himself stay focused in a regular length B&M course term (15 weeks). My son, the Music Man, can get straight As in 8 week terms, but he is even struggling with TESC's 12 week term, let alone his CC's 15 week term.

Because DegreeEric wants so much to get into the SDSU Sports MBA, I really would have liked to advise him that he first finish his "CSU transfer eligible AA/AS" He can take up to 30 of 60 credits with CLEP, and I think he really should heed the caution about no CBE for the "Golden Four" He could reasonably complete this phase by next year including the repeat of Financial Accounting He would then have a lot of options. For speed he could decide to maybe finish his bachelor's at one of the Big 3 and then apply for his dream school. I believe with his CA system Gen-Ed credentials he would have an enhanced chance for acceptance. But I think I do understand his pain of going to class for 15week terms at his B&M CC. But, I think an AA or AS path could be found with only 5-6 classes left and the rest CLEP. The problem with the California CC system is that there are too many options with lots of tricky pathways that negate your senior institution transfer degree which is really the same for getting all your credits accepted without question at any senior institution in the country. Note how in another thread, the shock that some Forum members are experiencing in which they find that they only have "vocational" credits because their CC did not make it clear what eligiblity these courses would have at a senior accredited school. CA CCs try to make it clear, but when a catalog blathers on for 450 pages, misunderstanding is completely undertstandable. Also CA CCs are very crowed. It's difficult to schedule the exact course you need. The quantity of online course offerings seems behind the times, and the options for 8 week term courses are extremely limited or non-existent. Perhaps DegreeEric will eventually inquire about other CC options.

[mrs.b]

Still cautioning to get clarification from SD State's Graduate Admissions on whether the GPA requirements (last 60 credits and overall) will include CBEs in the calculations or exclude them...and what their overall opinion is on CBEs; some schools think they're great evidence of a go-getter student who knows how to look for the path of least resistence, while others look down on them as unsavory shortcuts. Also, clarification from Admissions is needed on whether duplicating a course for a better grade will omit the lower grade from the GPA calculation, or if both will still be included. Different schools handle those situations differently.

If CBEs are excluded, or if duplicated lower grades are included, there must be more graded courses versus tests to offset the Cs and Ds from SD Mesa CC. Rather than jumping into the CLEP testing van now and possibly wasting time and money on something that will still need to be completed in course form, best to get that answered up front for inclusion in the game plan.

It's great to be eager to jump on things, but nothing saps motivation like wasted effort if the answer is something other than what one wants to hear after the time has already been invested. If looking for a starting point that can begin right this second, hunt for an undergrad that offers the right Bachelors with as many online courses in a format that suits your schedule. If longer-terms (12-15 weeks) sap your ability to stay focused, some shorter-term programs are out there. Colorado Tech's online program had short terms last time I looked, and was entirely online.

[JohnnyHeck]

Yes, Mrs.b your posts in this thread have always been very spot-on. Yet, my fear here is for analysis paralysis. Every point you have brought up must eventually be fully understood and addressed. I did not see any need to duplicate what you said because you already expressed it so well. Because DegreeEric is almost starting his Gen-Ed requirements from scratch and his whole belief system for his plan rests upon his being able to handle an extremely fast pace, I still believe it is the highest priority to confirm whether this is a fact as soon as possible. Some the points you raise just cannot be answered without an undergraduate target institution in mind, and it's still not even clear what GMAT and GPA DegreeEric will really need for his grad school. If and when DegreeEric reports back with his target "common core Gen-Ed CLEPs" could you then possibly point out which ones might cary wasteful risk? Given where he's starting from and the fact that even his current CC and possible undergraduate CSU schools will accept up to 30 CLEP credits, I just don't see any risk of wasted effort here at all, although I may be missing something. Let's all find out what DegreeEric has "got under the hood" so we all have a better chance of providing the best advice possible.

[mrs.b]

Some the points you raise just cannot be answered without an undergraduate target institution in mind, and it's still not even clear what GMAT and GPA DegreeEric will really need for his grad school.

All the points / cautions merely require a call or email to SD State's Grad Admissions group for clarification on what goes into their GPA calculations. In fact, that clarification is needed before a decision on the undergrad should be made. The reason any CBEs (Gen Ed or core) could prove wasteful depends on whether the Admissions group will include or exclude CBE credits. If 60 of the total 120 credits come from CBEs and the school excludes CBEs from the calculations, that means the Cs and Ds will carry much heavier weights (doubled from normal) in the GPA calculation, and should be offset by more courses, or the goal GPA target is likely to be under par. Loading in CBEs without that answer means a risk of either undershooting the target GPA, or wasting time and money when the courses have to be repeated for GPA needs. As someone that jumped into undergrad in a very similar boat, with an "eh" GPA and a goal of graduate school, the GPA weighting is extremely important or choices and chances will be severely limited. When you need to bury some so-so grades in a GPA, it takes a lot of offsetting, particularly if the end-game grad school is at all competitive.

If a bit of front-end research for a week or so to put together a solid gameplan that considers all the potential pitfalls kicks off a bout of analysis paralysis, God help ya if going for a graduate degree.

[sanantone]

Thanks for the reminder about the TESC BSBA capstone. Do you think this might change with the new catalog? I do remember you pointing this out before, but I tend to forget detailed specifics about any of the business degrees since so many others on this Forum have lot's more experience in this area, so I don't try to duplicate. No doubt about it that you are right about the $ value of a CC. But DegreeEric sounds like a man in a hurry who can't make himself stay focused in a regular length B&M course term (15 weeks). My son, the Music Man, can get straight As in 8 week terms, but he is even struggling with TESC's 12 week term, let alone his CC's 15 week term.

Because DegreeEric wants so much to get into the SDSU Sports MBA, I really would have liked to advise him that he first finish his "CSU transfer eligible AA/AS" He can take up to 30 of 60 credits with CLEP, and I think he really should heed the caution about no CBE for the "Golden Four" He could reasonably complete this phase by next year including the repeat of Financial Accounting He would then have a lot of options. For speed he could decide to maybe finish his bachelor's at one of the Big 3 and then apply for his dream school. I believe with his CA system Gen-Ed credentials he would have an enhanced chance for acceptance. But I think I do understand his pain of going to class for 15week terms at his B&M CC. But, I think an AA or AS path could be found with only 5-6 classes left and the rest CLEP. The problem with the California CC system is that there are too many options with lots of tricky pathways that negate your senior institution transfer degree which is really the same for getting all your credits accepted without question at any senior institution in the country. Note how in another thread, the shock that some Forum members are experiencing in which they find that they only have "vocational" credits because their CC did not make it clear what eligiblity these courses would have at a senior accredited school. CA CCs try to make it clear, but when a catalog blathers on for 450 pages, misunderstanding is completely undertstandable. Also CA CCs are very crowed. It's difficult to schedule the exact course you need. The quantity of online course offerings seems behind the times, and the options for 8 week term courses are extremely limited or non-existent. Perhaps DegreeEric will eventually inquire about other CC options.

The Business Policy capstone was never really a capstone in the first place. This change doesn't really affect anyone. It's just a name change. The name of the TECEP had long been changed and Strategic Management courses from other schools were accepted to fulfill the Business Policy requirement.

Many CCs have 8-week terms. Some even have 3, 5, and 6-week terms during the summer. As someone who has trouble with procrastination and focusing, I prefer to take 4 classes during a 16-week term than 2 classes during an 8-week term. Shorter terms mean more deadlines that are close together. It might be hard to stay focused at TESC because they assign a lot of busy work. If California CCs aren't an option, there are always the New Mexico CCs.

Still cautioning to get clarification from SD State's Graduate Admissions on whether the GPA requirements (last 60 credits and overall) will include CBEs in the calculations or exclude them...and what their overall opinion is on CBEs; some schools think they're great evidence of a go-getter student who knows how to look for the path of least resistence, while others look down on them as unsavory shortcuts. Also, clarification from Admissions is needed on whether duplicating a course for a better grade will omit the lower grade from the GPA calculation, or if both will still be included. Different schools handle those situations differently.

If CBEs are excluded, or if duplicated lower grades are included, there must be more graded courses versus tests to offset the Cs and Ds from SD Mesa CC. Rather than jumping into the CLEP testing van now and possibly wasting time and money on something that will still need to be completed in course form, best to get that answered up front for inclusion in the game plan.

It's great to be eager to jump on things, but nothing saps motivation like wasted effort if the answer is something other than what one wants to hear after the time has already been invested. If looking for a starting point that can begin right this second, hunt for an undergrad that offers the right Bachelors with as many online courses in a format that suits your schedule. If longer-terms (12-15 weeks) sap your ability to stay focused, some shorter-term programs are out there. Colorado Tech's online program had short terms last time I looked, and was entirely online.

Colorado Tech gets expensive because it's on the quarter hour system. When I attended, I had a lot of trouble with the 5-week terms because of my issues with procrastination and they assign a lot of busy work. But, everyone is different.

Colleges vary in their policies, but when I applied to Angelo State University, they told me only graded credits were counted in the last 60 credit hours. In my opinion, it wouldn't make any sense for a competitive graduate program to admit someone based on one or even a few graded courses. The graduate program I was in wasn't even competitive.