Why aren't transcript reviews automated?

[allvia]

If someone has a prior degree, then they have to differentiate between credits earned before and after conferral. The old credits might fit in gen ed and electives, but they can't be used in the major because you need 30 new credits.

30 new credits can be anywhere in your degree plan.  You can sometimes reuse credits from the major.  

I used some of my 1st BS business management degree "major" credits in my second  BS in Homeland Security and Emergency Management (HSEM) degree.  Fact, they satisfied the concentration: Agency Management

As a policy Excelsior College will not give you a second business degree if you have one already.  In a second field (HSEM) yes.

So, basically, the credits have to be "new" to the second degree but not necessarily new to the student?

For TESU (I don't know about the others) it is new to the student - they must be earned after the first degree is conferred.  So if your WGU degree is conferred on Sept 30 - your new credits need to be earned (awarded) after 10/01.  So, in this date scenario - if you're earning new credits from Study.com - don't take your final exams prior to 10/01.  Study.com uses the Exam date as the completed date (even if you hand in your papers/assignments after the exam has been taken; meaning you can't take the exam 9/25 and then hand in the assignments 10/05. Why, I don't know its just how it works - likely easier record keeping for them)

[mrstackz]

I work in the industry of data-based automation.  I can answer the question this way.  Short answer: Cost.

Long answer:

When dealing with transcripts you're dealing with three levels of information: Dates, Competencies, and Courses.  


Dates is easy.  But every school has their own preferences for how to evaluate them, and the accrediting bodies sometimes don't agree on relevancy.

Example: Penn Foster will take just about every credit you've been given credit for regardless of age.  Northern Arizona University, however, will only give certification credit based on tests - which are based on the date the test was written.  So you might have your A+ certification but NAU won't take it because it's based on the 700, rather than 900, series of tests.  Despite being (even to this day) the same basic material.

Competencies is straightforward.  But we've gotten convoluted with what we name things instead of keeping it simple.  We won't categorize "Math" or "Algebra", we have to say "Finite Math", "College Algebra", "Intermediate Algebra", etc.  Which means different competencies are expected.  For a business degree, what math do you need to know?  You basically need to know enough to navigate Excel and/or a calculator.  But then you have the accrediting bodies that force higher levels of math.  If School A's accrediting body requires 3 levels of math and School B's accrediting body only requires the highest level and assumes the lower levels from a high school degree, you can't easily create a mapping of credits if you're transferring from B to A.

Example: When I was enrolled at WGU originally, I had to take 5 - FIVE - distinct math-based classes.  NAU only required one.  Penn Foster two.  When I enrolled at WGU the second time they required two, including one I had already taken but didn't pass.

Courses is where it really gets problematic.  Some colleges like WGU are just the course and don't care about the individual competencies within (i.e. Project Management vs. Budget).  Some colleges like NAU break it down to every possible level but grant credit at a competency, not a class, level.  So then you transfer from WGU to NAU and NAU is having to try and figure out what all competencies should be included in the class reported.  Problem is that's based on the date of the class as it may have changed over time.

Example: in 2003 you might go to a WGU CS course and pass it.  In 2013 that same class might now talk about completely different (current) technologies.  School B might be only teaching the newer technologies and only credit you if the course was the 2013 version of the course, but they may only have a few students who have taken that version to compare competencies.




It's a lot more difficult than it should be because frankly, there are too many opinions about what a student should confidently know in a given program, and schools/accrediting bodies can't agree on what that minimum is. And that's because we add a bunch of useless garbage to pad the education - example is classes like "music appreciation" in a business class.  Unless you're opening a music store, such a class should not be anywhere in the program.

You give an excellent example of the "tiny niche" (competency-based schools) in the college World (WGU/NAU etc).  99% of colleges are way different. 
 
Time:  I transfer all my courses back to 1984 without issues.  Even the Intro to computers courses (99% of students also do not do IT Certs).  Only my Stats course was downgraded to an intro to Stats, not regular Stats at one college.  Many colleges only have one version of stats so thats what you get. 

Course Credits Amount (Length):  This is the biggest barrier to acceptance by the colleges and loses to the students!
Semester System 3 SH = 4.5 Quarter Hours.  

Quarter-hour college will give you equal course trade but the students often lose 33% of their credits that way.

Semester hour colleges (FTCC in North Carolina) will not take a 3 QH course as equal (acceptance) for their 3 SH course (3 QTRs = 2 SH).  Has NOTHING to do with competency or time or course name.

File an appeal:  I have tried this at numerous colleges and it does some times work.  I have maybe a 50% pass rate as 5 of 10 colleges agreed with my appeal on a course.  You can Petition to appeal Policy or Academic Requirements also (I did this in writing once also).  Community colleges I find the best and have a straight and easy to understand appeal system and Petition Forms.  Universities are a mixed bag!

NAU is not only a competency-based school. And it doesn't matter what side of the school you go to, either. Their brick-and-mortar uses the same decision criteria.

The thing is this though. If you're willing to basically uproot your life, quit your job and spend four hours a day at a stretch sitting behind a desk while someone lectures to you covering material you already know just to get to the two days of material that's net new for you, then yes. I'm sure they're more flexible with what they feel you know and don't know. But that's exactly why I said that everything is convoluted.

School - any school - should circle around teaching you what you DON'T know, not regurgitating what you do. The one-size-fits-all approach of traditional schooling is the reason there are such low competency rates across the board and why costs are sky high - everyone's spending too much time trying to make a generic program when the fact is, people don't all learn the same way or at the same pace.

That's the point I'm making to the original question as to why transcript reviews remain a problem for schools because no, the accrediting bodies do NOT give a lot of leeway to schools. The DOE's ambiguous guidance of "significant faculty engagement" has thrown a wrench in what should have otherwise been a very easy transition to learning and a single translation of what students really need to learn.

And to the other poster, I can give examples, but Penn Foster is one school that has tons of Humanities courses - one of which is "Music Appreciation".

https://www.pennfoster.edu/pdf-catalogs/488.pdf

[sanantone]

I work in the industry of data-based automation.  I can answer the question this way.  Short answer: Cost.

Long answer:

When dealing with transcripts you're dealing with three levels of information: Dates, Competencies, and Courses.  


Dates is easy.  But every school has their own preferences for how to evaluate them, and the accrediting bodies sometimes don't agree on relevancy.

Example: Penn Foster will take just about every credit you've been given credit for regardless of age.  Northern Arizona University, however, will only give certification credit based on tests - which are based on the date the test was written.  So you might have your A+ certification but NAU won't take it because it's based on the 700, rather than 900, series of tests.  Despite being (even to this day) the same basic material.

Competencies is straightforward.  But we've gotten convoluted with what we name things instead of keeping it simple.  We won't categorize "Math" or "Algebra", we have to say "Finite Math", "College Algebra", "Intermediate Algebra", etc.  Which means different competencies are expected.  For a business degree, what math do you need to know?  You basically need to know enough to navigate Excel and/or a calculator.  But then you have the accrediting bodies that force higher levels of math.  If School A's accrediting body requires 3 levels of math and School B's accrediting body only requires the highest level and assumes the lower levels from a high school degree, you can't easily create a mapping of credits if you're transferring from B to A.

Example: When I was enrolled at WGU originally, I had to take 5 - FIVE - distinct math-based classes.  NAU only required one.  Penn Foster two.  When I enrolled at WGU the second time they required two, including one I had already taken but didn't pass.

Courses is where it really gets problematic.  Some colleges like WGU are just the course and don't care about the individual competencies within (i.e. Project Management vs. Budget).  Some colleges like NAU break it down to every possible level but grant credit at a competency, not a class, level.  So then you transfer from WGU to NAU and NAU is having to try and figure out what all competencies should be included in the class reported.  Problem is that's based on the date of the class as it may have changed over time.

Example: in 2003 you might go to a WGU CS course and pass it.  In 2013 that same class might now talk about completely different (current) technologies.  School B might be only teaching the newer technologies and only credit you if the course was the 2013 version of the course, but they may only have a few students who have taken that version to compare competencies.




It's a lot more difficult than it should be because frankly, there are too many opinions about what a student should confidently know in a given program, and schools/accrediting bodies can't agree on what that minimum is. And that's because we add a bunch of useless garbage to pad the education - example is classes like "music appreciation" in a business class.  Unless you're opening a music store, such a class should not be anywhere in the program.

You give an excellent example of the "tiny niche" (competency-based schools) in the college World (WGU/NAU etc).  99% of colleges are way different. 
 
Time:  I transfer all my courses back to 1984 without issues.  Even the Intro to computers courses (99% of students also do not do IT Certs).  Only my Stats course was downgraded to an intro to Stats, not regular Stats at one college.  Many colleges only have one version of stats so thats what you get. 

Course Credits Amount (Length):  This is the biggest barrier to acceptance by the colleges and loses to the students!
Semester System 3 SH = 4.5 Quarter Hours.  

Quarter-hour college will give you equal course trade but the students often lose 33% of their credits that way.

Semester hour colleges (FTCC in North Carolina) will not take a 3 QH course as equal (acceptance) for their 3 SH course (3 QTRs = 2 SH).  Has NOTHING to do with competency or time or course name.

File an appeal:  I have tried this at numerous colleges and it does some times work.  I have maybe a 50% pass rate as 5 of 10 colleges agreed with my appeal on a course.  You can Petition to appeal Policy or Academic Requirements also (I did this in writing once also).  Community colleges I find the best and have a straight and easy to understand appeal system and Petition Forms.  Universities are a mixed bag!

NAU is not only a competency-based school.  And it doesn't matter what side of the school you go to, either.  Their brick-and-mortar uses the same decision criteria.

The thing is this though.  If you're willing to basically uproot your life, quit your job and spend four hours a day at a stretch sitting behind a desk while someone lectures to you covering material you already know just to get to the two days of material that's net new for you, then yes.  I'm sure they're more flexible with what they feel you know and don't know.  But that's exactly why I said that everything is convoluted.  

School - any school - should circle around teaching you what you DON'T know, not regurgitating what you do.  The one-size-fits-all approach of traditional schooling is the reason there are such low competency rates across the board and why costs are sky high - everyone's spending too much time trying to make a generic program when the fact is, people don't all learn the same way or at the same pace.

That's the point I'm making to the original question as to why transcript reviews remain a problem for schools because no, the accrediting bodies do NOT give a lot of leeway to schools.  The DOE's ambiguous guidance of "significant faculty engagement" has thrown a wrench in what should have otherwise been a very easy transition to learning and a single translation of what students really need to learn.  

And to the other poster, I can give examples, but Penn Foster is one school that has tons of Humanities courses - one of which is "Music Appreciation".

https://www.pennfoster.edu/pdf-catalogs/488.pdf

Regional accrediting bodies DO give schools a lot of freedom in developing their curricula. The proof is that schools with the same accreditor will often have different requirements. You can find their guidelines on their websites.

In regards to your response about humanities courses, I'm not sure you understood my post. My point was that just about every school will require fine arts and humanities courses. Your options are limited by what the school has available. That does not mean that the school won't allow you to transfer in a fine arts course they don't offer.

I work with taxes, and I never have to use College Algebra or a natural science. Almost every time someone complains about gen ed courses, social science and humanities courses are mentioned
 Rarely does someone mention the fact that hardly anyone needs math beyond basic algebra or physics, biology, and chemistry.

---

The DOE rules were written before the current style of competency-based courses existed. This wasn't to control curriculum; it was to determine what financial aid would pay for.

[ss20ts]

Every school has human review of transcripts. There are around 4,000 colleges and universities in the U.S. plus an unknown number of universities around the world. Each school has hundreds to thousands of courses.

Which seems like an awful waste of time to me.  The first time a student transfers in from Whatever U., those courses should be added to a database along with the associated local equivalency.  When another student from Whatever U. transfers in, an automated system should compare the records from what was captured by the admission of the first student and then flag those classes that aren't already in the database for manual review.  Upon that review, those courses would also be added to the database.  Over time, as more schools and courses are added to the database, the process should become a lot more efficient and flags for manual review should happen less frequently.  If the school wanted to be strict, maybe add an aging field to review how a course transfers in every 3-4 years to make sure the originating college is still meeting the standards of the local college, but that would still be a lot less manual overhead than how things currently work.

There's a flaw with this logic. Courses frequently change. Sometimes far more often than every 3-4 years. I just had to submit a course syllabus for a course to transfer to EC from CSU. Course numbers also change all the time. Keeping track of that is a great deal of work and would still need to be done by humans. Many colleges still send paper snail mail transcripts as well.