Second Degree Thoughts

[Lemurian_Spirit]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I've been away for a while. I attended commencement last month and because I went with a friend, travel plans were much more tedious than I would have thought. It took forever, and the trip really great--not to mention commencement, (woo hoo!), but I'm glad that's done.

Now I want to give you some background. I am now working as a temp at a legal regulatory organization, where I hope to become a full-time employee. I have never worked in the legal field until last month, though I was nearly related to a lawyer and have an interest in that area. I noticed that Straighterline has a Criminal Justice course. I was thinking of taking it because it would show my current temporary/prospective full-time employer that I have an interest in the subject. If I'm going to take another college credit course, just for grins, I applied for other degrees at TESC to see if as it stands without taking more courses I have enough credit for any other degree.

My current degree is a BA in Humanities, so I thought I'd see if I had enough credits for either a French or Music Bachelor's. According to the evaluation tool in OSS I'm 14 credits shy of a French degree and 25 credits shy of a Music degree--either of which too much work for me now.

Just for grins I thought I'd see if there was any other degree I might be eligible for either with or without the Criminal Justice course. Lo and behold, although the evaluation tool says I currently have fulfilled all the credits for the Liberal Arts Bachelor's, for some reason it still says I need four credits. I will post the degree plan from OSS in my next post. Please let me know if a) you think I really need four credits or not, and b) if PHI-287 Ethics in America gets moved up to Responsible Ethical Leadership under B: Responsibility, whether the Criminal Justice Straighterline could fulfill three credits of B: Liberal Studies.

The only reason I am thinking of getting this degree is because a) if I end up taking the Criminal Justice Straighterline course anyway, and it applies to this degree I would be one credit away from getting it, and presumably I could get that credit from the Community Safety Educators Self Study (Q0118) NFA course. I chose that course because of the three listed it at least has something to do with education and/or educators. What do you think? Would that work? BTW, how long do you think it would take to complete the NFA course? Are these quick like the FEMAs used to be?

If I am going to get this Liberal Arts Bachelor's I have to get it done by THIS December. I absolutely want no college courses into next year. I have heard that the Criminal Justice Straighterline course is easy, and it is still listed as having an open book final according to the Straighterline site, so I feel I could knock it out over Thanksgiving weekend (if not sooner). Would the NFA course be similar? If that is the case the only impediment would be the cost. If TESC is going to charge me another $3,000+ for this (because I have already graduated) I would seriously have consider whether it would be worth it or not. What do you think? Due to the length I will post a reply to this message with the proposed Liberal Arts Bachelor's degree plan. Hopefully it will all fit in one message. If not, I'll break it up into multiple posts.

Many thanks in advance for your help,

Jayney

[TMW2010]

I'm going off the top of my head, but doesn't TESC require new credits taken after the conferred degree for a second bachelors, or is that just for bachelor's transferred in from a different school?
(For some reason the number 24 is sticking out in my head).

Aha, here it is at http://www.tesc.edu/academics/catalog/Aw...egrees.cfm

Second Bachelor’s Degree
Students who have received one bachelor’s degree at Thomas Edison State College or another regionally accredited institution and wish to earn a second bachelor’s degree must:
• Complete a minimum of 24 additional credits in the area of study/core for a second bachelor’s degree beyond the date the most recent degree was completed
• Students must complete all requirements for the degree as listed in the current Thomas Edison State College Catalog.

The College will not award a third associate or bachelor’s degree.

[sanantone]

TESC requires 24 new credits in the area of study for second bachelor's degrees. They have to be earned after the first degree is conferred.

[Lemurian_Spirit]

____________________________________________________________________
Program Status: In Progress
Current.......... Anticipated(*).......
Required Earned Remaining Additional Remaining
Institutional Credits: 65.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Institutional GPA....: 4.000 Met
Combined Credits: 120.00 121.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Combined GPA....: 2.000 2.773 Met


10/26/14 Ms. Jayney B. Wallick Page 2
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(*) Anticipates completion of in-progress and registered courses
================================================================================
Statuses: W=Waived, C=Complete, I=In progress, N=Not started
P=Pending completion of unfinished activity
================================================================================

I) 1: BA General Education (60 SH)
Credits: 60
Complete all 4 subrequirements:
C) A: Intellectual Skills
> Complete 15 semester hours (SH) of Intellectual and
> Practical Skills coursework, to include:
> *English Composition I, 3SH with grade of C or better
> *English Composition II (Writing Intensive), 3SH with grade
> of C or better
> *Math, 3SH
> *Intellectual and Practical Skills Electives, 6SH
Credits: 17
C) ENC-101
ENC-101 English Composition I...... 12/01/76 B 4 *TE
C) ENC-102 (Writing Intensive)
ENC-102 English Composition II..... 05/01/77 C+ 4 *TE
C) Math
MAT-103 General Math II............ 09/01/13 CR 3 *NE
C) Intellectual and Practical Skills
Credits: 6
MAT-102 General Math I............. 09/01/13 CR 3 *NE
ENG-201 Technical Writing.......... 01/16/14 CR 3 *NE

I) B: Responsibility
> Complete 9 semester hours (SH) in Personal and Social
> Responsibility coursework to include:
> *Diversity or Global Literacy, 3SH
> *Responsible Ethical Leadership, 3SH
> *Elective, 3SH
Credits: 6
C) Diversity or Global Literacy
ANT-150 Cultural Anthropology I.... 01/10/14 CR 3 *NE
N) Responsible Ethical Leadership
____________________________________________________ 3 credits needed
C) Personal and Social Responsibility Elective
SOC-101 Introduction to Sociology.. 01/17/14 CR 3 *NE

C) C: Human Cultures
> Complete 18 semester hours (SH) in Human Cultures and the
> Physical and Natural World to include:
> *Humanities, 3SH
> *Social Sciences, 3SH
> *Natural Sciences, 3SH
> Choose electives from Humanities, Social
> Sciences, Natural Sciences and Interdisciplinary course, 9SH
Credits: 18
C) Humanities
MUS-100 Music Appreciation......... 12/01/76 A 3 *TE
C) Social Sciences
SOS-102 Social Sciences and History 11/01/13 CR 3 *NE
C) Natural Sciences
NAS-102 Natural Sciences II........ 10/01/13 CR 3 *NE

10/26/14 Ms. Jayney B. Wallick Page 3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C) Interdisciplinary
Credits: 9
MUS-199 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 05/01/77 A 3 *TE
NAS-101 Natural Sciences I......... 10/01/13 CR 3 *NE
SOS-101 Social Sciences and History 11/01/13 CR 3 *NE

C) D: General Ed Electives
> Complete 18 semester hours (SH) in General Education
> Electives.
Credits: 19
PHI-101 Introduction to Philosophy. 01/21/14 CR 3 *NE
MUS-199 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 12/01/77 C 4 *TE

MUS-144 Counterpoint I............. 12/01/77 C 4 *TE
MUS-145 Counterpoint II............ 05/01/78 D 4 *TE
FRE-299 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 12/01/77 B+ 4 *TE
================================================================================
C) 2: BA Liberal Studies (30 SH)
Credits: 32
GPA Achieved/Needed: 3.336 / 2.000
Complete both subrequirements:
C) A: Upper Level (15 SH)
> Complete 15 semester hours of 300 and 400 level Liberal
> Arts and Sciences coursework. At least TWO or more
> different areas must be included within the entire
> Concentration to provide breadth of knowledge in the
> Liberal Studies Area.
Credits: 16
REL-405 World Religions............ 01/08/14 CR 3 *NE
PHI-384 Ethics & Business Professio 12/14/13 CR 3 *NE
BUS-302 Business Ethics and Society 01/06/14 CR 3 *NE
MAN-311 Organizational Behavior.... 01/18/14 CR 3 *NE
REL-399 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 05/01/78 A 4 *TE

C) B: Liberal Stud (15 SH)
> Complete 15 semester hours (SH) of Liberal Arts and Sciences
> coursework. A maximum of 6 credits can be at the 100 level.
Credits: 16
FRE-399 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 05/01/78 A- 4 *TE
FRE-241 Survey of French Literature 12/01/76 C+ 3 *TE
FRE-242 Survey of French Literature 05/01/77 B 3 *TE
PSY-230 Intro. to Educational Psych 12/01/13 CR 3 *NE
PHI-287 Ethics in America.......... 12/30/13 CR 3 *NE
================================================================================
C) 3: Liberal Arts Capstone (3 SH)
> Complete course LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone for 3
> semester hours (SH).
LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone...... 2014FEB A 3
================================================================================
I) 4: BA Free Electives (27 SH)
> Complete 27 semester hours of Free Electives.
Credits: 26 Required: 27 Remaining: 1
HEA-203 Medical Terminology........ 01/19/14 CR 3 *NE
MUS-299 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 05/01/78 D 4 *TE
ENG-246 Poetry I................... 12/01/77 CR 4 *TE
MUS-299 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 05/01/78 B 2 *TE
MUS-199 Spec. Stud. in Selected Top 12/01/77 B- 2 *TE
EDM-209 Effective Communications... 01/22/14 CR 1 *NE

10/26/14 Ms. Jayney B. Wallick Page 4
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EDM-208 Decision Making & Problem S 01/22/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-207 Leadership and Influence... 01/22/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-190 Build.For Earthqua.Of Tomor 01/22/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-224 Emergency Planning......... 01/23/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-172 Radiological Emergency Resp 01/23/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-154 Hazardous Materials:a Cit.O 01/23/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-241 Mitigation for Homeowners.. 01/24/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-232 Intro, Residential Coastal 01/24/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-140 Introduction to Mitigation. 01/24/14 CR 1 *NE
EDM-155 Orien. Haz Mat for Med. Prs 02/02/14 CR 1 *NE
_____________________________________________________ 1 credit needed
================================================================================
OTHER COURSES: Registered Earned
Credits Credits
None
================================================================================
*********************************************************************

Students enrolled in Thomas Edison State College through the

Enrolled Options Tuition Plan or the Comprehensive Tuition Plan do
not have a residency requirement and may disregard this section.

However, students enrolled in the following tuition/enrollment plans
must earn twelve (12) semester hours of Thomas Edison State College
credit in order to earn an associate degree and twenty-four (24)
semester hours of Thomas Edison State College credit in order to
earn a baccalaureate degree.

.Per Credit Tuition Plan
.Military Degree Completion Plan
.Navy College Partnership Program
.GoArmyEd/eArmyU Program

Thomas Edison State College credit includes Guided
Study/Online/Blended/e-Pack courses, TECEP exams and/or Portfolio
Assessment.

Please note that residency requirements at Thomas Edison State
College do not mean that you must physically come to the College or
attend courses at any physical location.

If your academic evaluation shows that you have met your degree
requirements and you have not met your residency requirement, you
may want to discuss changing tuition/enrollment plans before you
apply for graduation.

The courses listed below are your Thomas Edison State College
courses that satisfy your residency requirement. These courses are
also listed separately in the area of your evaluation where they
fulfill degree requirements.
2014FEB LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone 3 SH

10/26/14 Ms. Jayney B. Wallick Page 5
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Total Completed Semester Hours: 3

For more information regarding available tuition plans please go to
the following link:
Thomas Edison State College: Selecting the Right Tuition Plan.
*********************************************************************

NOTES

*NE Non-course Equivalency
*TE Transfer Equivalency
*U Used! - has already been used elsewhere

[bricabrac]

TMW,

You are correct, the OP would need earn 24 NEW credits in the area of study (AOS) for a second bachelors degree.

OP,

You might consider the relatively new pay per credit tuition plan to earn the second degree. You would use 8 TECEPs at $111 each to fill the residency requirement. See the link in my signature for additional information and a price comparison spreadsheet.

Do you not think liberal studies is a bit close to humanities? You might consider a BSBA in General Management which is highly valued across many industries? There are plenty of TECEPs available to help fill the AOS/Core as well as other areas of the degree that you may need to fill. You can then combine with PF courses and CLEP/DSST exams to complete the degree plan. The beauty of the PPC plan is as long as you take one TECEP per year you will remain an enrolled student and you can work on your new degree at your own pace.

You might even combine the BSBA with an AAS in Criminal Justice? You could graduate with both at the same time for one grad fee. Keep in mind the AAS would require at min 12 NEW credits in AOS.

Just another point of view.

Good luck in whichever direction you take!

[Lemurian_Spirit]

You guys are great! Many thanks for dispelling me of the notion of getting a second degree--at least at TESC (and I'm sure any other college would have the same requirements). Not to mention I recently saw that a Liberal Arts degree was listed as the seventh worst college degree to get (i.e. employers almost disregard it).

I certainly couldn't take 24 credits by December (unless I was unemployed--which I sincerely hope won't happen again). Many thanks again. I was only thinking of going for a second degree if a) it wouldn't be much work, and b) I could get it done by THIS December--neither of which looks likely now. BTW, if I have to take 24 more credits, why doesn't the OSS evaluation display that? That seems odd. I wonder if there is some sort of grace period if application is soon enough after the degree was awarded? Just a thought.

You see, I have a certification (Certified Professional in Learning and Performance--CPLP) that requires re-certification every three years. I thought I could get that certification in one year--it took two (twice as long as it took me to earn my AA and BA at TESC). One easy way to fulfill some of the re-certification requirements is to take continuing education. However, the subject matter is pretty specific, and would likely be at odds with whatever I would take to get a degree. Because it took so long to get my certification there is no way I will let it lapse (letting it lapse means getting certified all over again, now it is even more difficult to obtain this certification than it used to be--and it was extremely difficult before), and getting my degrees has already distracted me from continuing education geared toward my re-certification, so since I already have a ticket open with TESC I will confirm with them that I would have to take another 24 credits (and pay another enrollment fee) to get another degree. If that is the case I will drop this idea like a hot potato. I am already planning to take a course counting toward my re-certification that takes place this coming March, so that is why I have put a hard stop at December.

Bricabrac, I like your idea, but just want to spend as little time as possible on this. If I can't manage it, then it really isn't a priority for me. I have enough going on trying to keep up with the CPLP re-certification requirements (that go beyond continuing education, BTW, such as performing work in my field--often hundreds of hours' worth, etc.).

However, when I called TESC previously, the person I spoke with made no mention of having to take 24 new credits for a new degree. I would think that would be the first thing said, but what do I know. In fact, I mentioned that I wanted whatever degree I could get by December to the Admissions person, who said that it was entirely possible to do. Now I'm really confused. At any rate, I will try to speak with someone in Admissions this week to clarify before I just give up. I wish I had thought of this before I graduated. It might have been nice to have a couple of degrees, but it clearly isn't the end of the world if that doesn't happen. After I have spoken with someone at TESC I will follow up here. Many thanks again.

[TMW2010]

Just because you couldn't necessarily get the degree completed by December doesn't mean you shouldn't consider moving forward *if* it would be beneficial to you and not just another piece of paper to hang on your wall (Unless you've got unlimited resources, then by all means, spend away).

Sanantone can provide a much better idea on if/how well CJ coursework would apply to a Legal Regulatory organization.

It's quite possible something like the BSBA in HRM/OM, General Business, Operations Management, or Org Leadership *may* help you, depending on what you're really looking to do. But you'll likely have to take about 36-40 credits for any of those, after glancing over your transcript. Another consideration would be a Grad Cert in Project Management, Public Service Leadership, or Org Management and Leadership if you're wanting to work on the business side of things, but not so much on the policy side. But those can get expensive with TESC's costs, and I'm not sure I'd stick with TESC to get that.

Or, you can start looking for grad certs or Master's degrees through other schools that might have a positive impact on what exactly you want to do in your career.

[GoodYellowDogs]

In my lifetime, which is a long, long time, as a hiring manager, I have never looked at what the degree was - one is as good as another. However, that is probably true that it's not a good degree to come out of school with and not have any experience. However, if you have work experience, I really don't think it matters. Just my two cents...

You guys are great! Many thanks for dispelling me of the notion of getting a second degree--at least at TESC (and I'm sure any other college would have the same requirements). Not to mention I recently saw that a Liberal Arts degree was listed as the seventh worst college degree to get (i.e. employers almost disregard it).

I certainly couldn't take 24 credits by December (unless I was unemployed--which I sincerely hope won't happen again). Many thanks again. I was only thinking of going for a second degree if a) it wouldn't be much work, and b) I could get it done by THIS December--neither of which looks likely now. BTW, if I have to take 24 more credits, why doesn't the OSS evaluation display that? That seems odd.

You see, I have a certification (Certified Professional in Learning and Performance--CPLP) that requires re-certification every three years. I thought I could get that certification in one year--it took two (twice as long as it took me to earn my AA and BA at TESC). One easy way to fulfill some of the re-certification requirements is to take continuing education. However, the subject matter is pretty specific, and would likely be at odds with whatever I would take to get a degree. Because it took so long to get my certification there is no way I will let it lapse (letting it lapse means getting certified all over again, now it is even more difficult to obtain this certification than it used to be--and it was extremely difficult before), and getting my degrees has already distracted me from continuing education geared toward my re-certification, so since I already have a ticket open with TESC I will confirm with them that I would have to take another 24 credits (and pay another enrollment fee) to get another degree. If that is the case I will drop this idea like a hot potato. I am already planning to take a course counting toward my re-certification that takes place this coming March, so that is why I have put a hard stop at December.

Bricabrac, I like your idea, but just want to spend as little time as possible on this. If I can't manage it, then it really isn't a priority for me. I have enough going on trying to keep up with the CPLP re-certification requirements (that go beyond continuing education, BTW, such as performing work in my field--often hundreds of hours' worth, etc.).

However, when I called TESC previously, the person I spoke with made no mention of having to take 24 new credits for a new degree. I would think that would be the first thing said, but what do I know. In fact, I mentioned that I wanted whatever degree I could get by December to the Admissions person, who said that it was entirely possible to do. Now I'm really confused. At any rate, I will try to speak with someone in Admissions this week to clarify before I just give up. I wish I had thought of this before I graduated. It might have been nice to have a couple of degrees, but it clearly isn't the end of the world if that doesn't happen. After I have spoken with someone at TESC I will follow up here. Many thanks again.

[sanantone]

A course in criminal justice or law enforcement is not going to have much value to anyone. They are just intro courses to the field that teach the basics of corrections, court systems, police operations, etc. Criminal justice is mostly about social problems, the operations of corrections departments, the operations of courts, and the operations of police departments. You'll only get a shallow understanding of criminal law in a criminal law course. Criminal justice degree programs are not a replacement for legal studies or paralegal studies programs. You won't learn much about regulatory agencies, administrative law, civil law, or business law unless it relates to white collar crime in a white collar crime course.

A liberal studies degree is mostly just a "check the box" degree. It's not going to have any more value than your humanities degree.

[Lemurian_Spirit]

Thanks bunches everyone. I still think it's worth one more phone call to TESC before I drop this idea, but I value all your input greatly. I had a feeling that the Criminal Justice might not be the best fit, but thought it might be a closer match than it turns out it is. That is a huge help. Bottom line at this point, if, as I suspect the other bachelor's will cost another enrollment fee and not be doable by December I will forget about it and also the idea of any other degree. I just can't be bothered with my other certification continuing education and related work. If, however, the credits I already have could count and I could just take four credits' worth of courses and have another degree I might go for it. In that case, I am still researching this, but if I go that route I think I would end up doing any remaining coursework by December (that is a must), and then enrolling in January so I could have enrollment apply to the American Tax Credit for next year (which would refund the bulk of the cost). Of course, these are all just thoughts right now. I'm happy to report what I end up doing if you would like. However, I really do appreciate all your help.