New here, questions about BA / BS in Criminal Justice / IT / Cyber Security

[Jldeen]

Hi there, my name is Jessica and I've been reading several threads. The information provided in both the wiki and on the forums is both wonderful and overwhelming all at once. My hope is that if I provide a little background on myself and explain my goals / degree objectives, some or more of you will be kind enough to point me in a good direction.

I am 25 years old and work as an Information Technology specialist / consultant for various companies. I've been in this field for over 10 years as my first clients were in high school. I'm good at my job but I'm not challenged enough. To move further in my field I would need a degree in addition to the several certifications I already have. I also would like o slightly transition with my career and focus on technology as it pertains to the criminal justice system. With that said, I decided to go back to school to get, ideally, a degree in Criminal Justice with a concentration on Cyber Security / Cyber Crimes. I was originally considering UoP until I stumbled upon this forum and read several successful test out stories. I went to a local CC back in 2007 and obtained a whopping 9 credits. So for all intensive purposes, I'm a blank canvas and really don't know where to begin.

I was looking at both TESC and EC and both have CJ degrees and IT degrees. I don't know whether to try for 2 bachelors or if there is a way to do an emphasis with the CLEP / DSST / EC / test out method.

Again, I have read several threads and I understand the overall concept, I just really am at a loss for where start devising a lesson plan / testing plan. I'd love to complete a degree in a year, if at all possible.

Thank you, in advance, for reading and I grate lay appreciate any advice you can offer. (Sorry for any typos, I am on my iPad.)

[UptonSinclair]

If you are interested in cyber security, I would steer toward an IT degree rather than criminal justice. Most computer forensics type jobs found on indeed.com ask for either computer science or computer information systems. As far as I know, testing out of IT degrees is impossible. You will be able to test out of your general education, but there aren't many IT exams and a couple of those available overlap each other.

If I were in your shoes, I would look at Western Governor's University.
Online IT Degree | Information Technology Bachelor Degree | WGU College of Information Technology

If cost is a concern, Fort Hays has a more affordable option, but I imagine it would take far longer to get the degree.

Stay tuned for other opinions. There are people here with far more knowledge than me.

[Lindagerr]

TESC has their Learner designed Area of study which can combine concentrations. That may be a way to individualize your degree and maximize the use of testing and/or online self paced classes

[sanantone]

Criminal justice programs with a concentration in any IT field are rare. When they do have a concentration in something like cyber security, the concentration tends to be technically weak. You definitely do not need or even want a CJ degree to work in cyber security. DO NOT ATTEND UOP! It's extremely expensive, has one of the worst reputations any college can have (I think it's well deserved based on personal experience and the law suits they've lost), and they are close to being put on notice or on probation by their accreditor.

Preferably, you should get a degree in computer science, computer information systems, or information technology. There are also programs in cyber security, information assurance, and information security. A last resort would be TESC's BSBA in Computer Information Systems in which you can test out about 80%. The cool thing about WGU's programs is that the cost of certifications is included in the tuition, but WGU's courses do not come with grades. Everything is pass/fail. That's something to consider if you plan to continue on to graduate school.

[bs13]

EC offers BS in Computer technology and BS in IT(with or without concentration) degree where as TESC offers BSAST in IT. There is a capstone requirement for BS degree from EC. I would say, please submit your application and transcripts to both EC and TESC to see how many more credits you required towards bachelors degree. EC will give credits for IT certification such as MCSE,Oracle DBA,Sun certified Administrator etc.

[Jldeen]

Thank you, everyone, for your input. I simply want to spend the least amount of $$ and get the most possible out of whichever path I chose. I have always had a keen interest in Criminal Justice and would love to work in a Criminal Justice capacity. I just also have a talent / knack for Information Technology as well. I would like to go on to graduate school as well. I was even thinking of obtaining two bachelors degrees; but I am just trying to figure out the best road to take. I spoke to a lady from EC this morning and we went over the certifications:

CompTIA A+ - 2 Credits
CompTIA Network + - 2 Credits
CompTIA Security + - 2 Credits

MCITP - Windows 7 Enterprise Administration - 2 Credits

My 9 credits from CC are as follows (this was several years ago when I had a different mindset. My grades are quite poor:

Administration of Justice - Conflict / Resolution - 3CR (Grade C)
English 1A - 3 Credits (Grade D)
Theater - Intro to theater - 3 Credits (Grade C)

As I understand it, if I were to transfer my certifications, they would transfer over as electives. I guess I'm trying to figure out where to start. For example, if I were to start with a Criminal Justice degree and test out of the GE / any classes with CLEP and DSST then I could take necessary classes for CJ. But then I wonder, what will that cost? Next, let's say I obtain my CJ BA and then decide to return to EC for a BS in IT, the lady I spoke to said 90 credits at most would transfer from my CJ BA. So that would leave 30 credits, roughly, to pursue with EC via online courses. Or I could take UptonSinclar's advice and attend WGU. With EC, as I understand it, if I take 2 classes every 8 weeks, I could finish my second bachelors degree in less than a year after obtaining my first. I'm not sure what it would be like if I were to create a hybrid program with EC, WGU, CLEP and DSST.

After all this, I would then, likely, choose to pursue graduate school.

I looked at TESC as well, as I also said, but it doesn't seem as flexible with how creative I am trying to be. Am I missing something?

I saw that several members of these forums were able to obtain multiple degrees in less than a year. Obviously, they aren't as focus specific as my degree interests are but is it possible to create a hybrid program and if so, where would be best to begin?

I'm sorry for all the questions. Clearly, I am overwhelming myself.

***EDIT***

I also just came up with another idea after reading Bricabrac's less than a year BA in SS success story. What if I were to go the same route he / she went to simply obtain a bachelors degree. Next, I could go to EC or WGU to obtain a BA in CJ and / or a BS in IT. The only reason I suggest the BA in SS is because it seems like I can almost fully test out of that degree. After having a degree, I can transfer most of those credits to other schools for additional degrees, right? This seems as though it may be the less expensive / least time consuming option unless I'm not understanding something correctly.

[sanantone]

I don't see how TESC would be any less flexible than Excelsior with the exception of not giving as many credits for IT certifications. At TESC, you have to earn 24 new credits in the area of study for the second degree after graduating with the first degree. Charter Oak State College has the Individualized Studies program. TESC, as Lindagerr said, has the learner designed area of study in a BS, BSBA, BSAST, and BA. From someone's experience here, WGU's credits transferred best to COSC. Excelsior does have cyber security concentrations, but it's expensive at $425 per credit hour. The required IT courses would not be easy to find at another school that is cheap and quick.

Propero and Penn Foster offer a lot of ACE-approved criminal justice courses. The problem is that Excelsior and COSC require about 30 UL credits (about 12 or 15 have to be in the major/concentration), and they will not give UL credit to Propero and PF courses. TESC will give UL credit for many of those courses, and they also grant UL credit for more CBEs (credit by exam). TESC only requires 18 UL credits in the area of study. UL stands for "upper level."

There are only a few instances where you would need a degree in criminal justice and those jobs will usually also take a degree in the social sciences (psychology, social work, sociology, counseling, behavioral science, human services, etc.) or law: probation/parole, management positions in corrections, 3 federal law enforcement agencies, management positions in corporate/private security (these also accept business degrees), specialized state agencies that do investigations, and insurance fraud (these also accept finance and accounting degrees). Most law enforcement agencies do not require or prefer a certain major. A degree in criminal justice would actually hurt you when applying for the FBI. None of the intelligence agencies (CIA, NSA, DIA, etc) ask for criminal justice degrees unless they have one of their rare openings in physical security or polygraph.

I worked in security for several years and worked for a law enforcement agency as a civilian. Most law enforcement officers will tell you NOT to get a degree in CJ. It is not needed to get into law enforcement, and there is little you can do with it if you either fail to get a job in LE (this is a very real possibility), quit because of burn out (most LEOs last only 10 years), or are permanently injured to the point where can no longer work as an LEO. If you really want to study CJ, that is fine, but don't expect it to get you anywhere that a degree in underwater basketweaving wouldn't get you.

Sorry if I sound annoyed, but people often think you need a criminal justice degree in order to work in law enforcement. This is not true. A CJ degree also won't make you much more prepared for the job. CJ degrees don't teach you state and local laws, defensive tactics, driving skills, handcuffing, weapons use, and other things you need to know as an LEO. Most of what you need to know will be taught during the academy and during the field training experience.

[Jldeen]

I don't see how TESC would be any less flexible than Excelsior with the exception of not giving as many credits for IT certifications. At TESC, you have to earn 24 new credits in the area of study for the second degree after graduating with the first degree. Charter Oak State College has the Individualized Studies program. TESC, as Lindagerr said, has the learner designed area of study in a BS, BSBA, BSAST, and BA. From someone's experience here, WGU's credits transferred best to COSC. Excelsior does have cyber security concentrations, but it's expensive at $425 per credit hour. The required IT courses would not be easy to find at another school that is cheap and quick.

Propero and Penn Foster offer a lot of ACE-approved criminal justice courses. The problem is that Excelsior and COSC require about 30 UL credits (about 12 or 15 have to be in the major/concentration), and they will not give UL credit to Propero and PF courses. TESC will give UL credit for many of those courses, and they also grant UL credit for more CBEs (credit by exam). TESC only requires 18 UL credits in the area of study. UL stands for "upper level."

There are only a few instances where you would need a degree in criminal justice and those jobs will usually also take a degree in the social sciences (psychology, social work, sociology, counseling, behavioral science, human services, etc.) or law: probation/parole, management positions in corrections, 3 federal law enforcement agencies, management positions in corporate/private security (these also accept business degrees), specialized state agencies that do investigations, and insurance fraud (these also accept finance and accounting degrees). Most law enforcement agencies do not require or prefer a certain major. A degree in criminal justice would actually hurt you when applying for the FBI. None of the intelligence agencies (CIA, NSA, DIA, etc) ask for criminal justice degrees unless they have one of their rare openings in physical security or polygraph.

I worked in security for several years and worked for a law enforcement agency as a civilian. Most law enforcement officers will tell you NOT to get a degree in CJ. It is not needed to get into law enforcement, and there is little you can do with it if you either fail to get a job in LE (this is a very real possibility), quit because of burn out (most LEOs last only 10 years), or are permanently injured to the point where can no longer work as an LEO. If you really want to study CJ, that is fine, but don't expect it to get you anywhere that a degree in underwater basketweaving wouldn't get you.

Sorry if I sound annoyed, but people often think you need a criminal justice degree in order to work in law enforcement. This is not true. A CJ degree also won't make you much more prepared for the job. CJ degrees don't teach you state and local laws, defensive tactics, driving skills, handcuffing, weapons use, and other things you need to know as an LEO. Most of what you need to know will be taught during the academy and during the field training experience.

Thank you so much for your response. You don't sound annoyed -- you're giving me the information I'm requesting. If its going to cost more to obtain a CJ degree and it's not truly necessary then perhaps I should focus on devising a plan to obtain my BA in Social Science and then go back and also obtain an additional degree in IT. The more I hear about TESC, perhaps that would be a better route. Frankly, I'm just overwhelmed because a week ago I didn't know I could test out of so many courses and get a degree in such a short amount of time for minimal cost.

So I suppose the next step is to apply at TESC? How are their admissions councelors when you mention CLEP, DSST, and other testing out options? Are they also cheaper on the per credit cost basis for taking classes? Thanks again!

[sanantone]

TESC has two tuition plans. The Enrolled Options Plan is best for those taking less than 24 credit hours per year in TESC courses. You pay a nearly $3,000 enrollment fee and $221 per credit hour if you're not a New Jersey resident. The Comprehensive Tuition Plan is about $8,000 and it allows you to take up to 36 credits per year as TECEPs (a TESC CBE), ePacks (self-paced courses that end in something like a TECEP), guided study courses, and online courses. In order to receive a full award of financial aid, you have to take at least 12 credits in guided study or online courses per 6 months or 24 credits per year. If you were to take 36 credits at Excelsior, it would be $15,300. 24 credits would be around $10,200 at EC while 24 credits at TESC under the Enrolled Options Plan would be around $8300.

FEMAs are free emergency management courses offered by the federal government. All of the Big 3 give free elective credit for them. TESC and COSC take them directly without charging anything. Excelsior requires that you have them transcripted by another college. I can't remember if it has to be Frederick Community College, but they charge $77 per credit hour just to transcript FEMAs. Other colleges will charge too. If you can afford it, you might want to apply to all 3 schools. TESC is known for having bad customer service. COSC has the best customer service. You can't really find out anything from EC until you enroll.

Why do you really want two degrees? What do you want to do with a BA in Social Science? Maybe you should get a bachelor's degree in computer science or IT; and, then, work on a master's in criminal justice. By the way, you can use some CJ courses toward a social science degree. A member here used a lot of courses from Penn Foster. I have about 30 CJ credits, and a few of them counted as social sciences.

[Jldeen]

Once again Sanantone, thank you for your prompt response.

In answer to your question, I want two degrees to just kind of have them.

As I understand it, BA in Social Science is very diverse with where you can go with it.

Also, it seems to be the most attainable (quickest and least expensive) in the near future. I have so many certifications in IT and run my own, successful, consulting business in the computer science arena. I will get my IT degree at some point but studying other areas that isn't only technology is very stimulating and appealing at the moment. I've been taking certification classes and studying technology for so long, I want a break.

I also have been strongly considering changing careers in the next few years and having two degrees will give me some backing when it comes to the different roads I could take. I started creating an Excel spreadsheet to walk myself through the certifications / classes as I take them. How does this look as a preliminary?


  Less than 1 minute ago">TESC BA SS.xlsx (Size: 12.95 KB / Downloads: 0)

It's not much yet but it's what I'm working with to set a course and a plan.

In case its hard to read, I only have a few CLEP tests on there to fill the corresponding requirements. How does this look as a start?

CLEP CE College Composition (6 credits) to satisfy ENC-101 / 102 (I also have a transferring English 1A class from a CC for 3 credits. It has a poor grade though so I might not want them to use it.)
CLEP CE Natural Sciences (General) (6 credits) to satisfy Natural Sciences 3 credit course for GE
CLEP CE Humanities (General) (6 credits) to satisfy 6 of the 9 needed credits for Humanities, Social Sciences, Natural Sciences or Interdisciplinary
CLEP CE English Literature (3 credits) to satisfy the remaining 3 needed credits for Humanities, Social Sciences, Natural Sciences or Interdisciplinary

If my math and understanding is correct, the above starting point will give me a total of 21 credits towards my GE. I'm still working on it and I am obviously still new but I am using both the wiki and the forums to piece this together. You guys are seriously great and I am very appreciative.