Need major help making a Degree Plan!

[mosescaballero]

Hey People.


I have been on and off this forum as a guest, but I decided to join this forum.

I have placed college on the back burner for years. Family, and work came first. Now, I am 25, and I MUST complete my Pre-Med Degree. No more stalling. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Degree in Biology, just as long as I meet the prerequisites for Med School (Bio, Chem, Physics, BioChem, Lit, English). I have eight credits so far. This summer, I am planning on Testing out on English, Social Sciences, Literature, and Humanities. For the fall, I wish to take Bio I, Chem I, Physics I, Anatomy/Physiology I, and Medical Terminology. I would like to test out of it, since I worked as a Paramedic, and a Medical Assistant. For the sake of "Looking Good", I am sitting in for Anatomy and Physiology, though I should test out.


Can anyone help me, with organizing a plan? I am starting my plan for 28 May, and want to finish in 12 months or less.

I welcome any and all criticism, comments, advice, airhugs, etc.

Moses

P.S. I am also currently taking graduate level courses in Public Health. So Far, I've taken: Intro to Public Health (A), Intro to Epidemiology (B+), Global Perspectives of Health Leadership (A), and Public Health Practice (B+). I am registering for two more classes in the Fall.

[ryoder]

I would concentrate on the CLEPable Gen Eds first. Get as many of those as possible under your belt before spending money on traditional courses. You can go buy the REA books and begin studying right now.
Do not dedicate hundreds of hours to creating, searching for, and responding to discussions on this forum. Come up with a rough idea of a long-term plan, then identify short term objectives such as CLEP out of a,b,c,d in 30 days. Then begin executing that plan and tune out of the Internet including Facebook and this forum.

[Jonathan Whatley]

Moses,

Welcome!

Now, I am 25, and I MUST complete my Pre-Med Degree. No more stalling. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Degree in Biology, just as long as I meet the prerequisites for Med School (Bio, Chem, Physics, BioChem, Lit, English). I have eight credits so far. This summer, I am planning on Testing out on English, Social Sciences, Literature, and Humanities. For the fall, I wish to take Bio I, Chem I, Physics I, Anatomy/Physiology I, and Medical Terminology. I would like to test out of it, since I worked as a Paramedic, and a Medical Assistant. For the sake of "Looking Good", I am sitting in for Anatomy and Physiology, though I should test out.

I believe almost all, possibly all, medical schools in the U.S. expect courses with labs in general biology (1-year sequence, typically 8 sh), general chemistry (1-year sequence, typically 8 sh), organic chemistry (1-year sequence, typically 8 sh), and physics (1-year sequence, typically 8 sh). Some might prefer or require additional courses such as biochemistry, A&P, etc. I would be surprised if any medical school required an undergraduate medical terminology course.

To make sure this is clear, you don't just want to sit in on the core science requirements for the sake of "looking good." You need the labs.

There are a few distance learning lab-course options. Some medical schools will accept these. Some will not. Here and there a college might grant the equivalent of lab credit towards a degree at that college for a CLEP, but it's almost unthinkable that a med school would take this as covering their lab course requirement.

Also, let's step back. In the fall, besides 4 hard science courses and 1 medical terminology course you want to take 2 graduate courses in public health?

Each science course could be 4 sh, med term 3 and the grad courses 3. That's 25 semester hours. As a premedical student, you should be kind of zealous about (a) maintaining a strong GPA in coursework and (b) really getting down every concept, term, and problem-solving approach in those science courses that you might depend on in those courses, in the subsequent courses that build on them, and in the MCAT.

Are you ready to do these while taking approximately double a full-time course load, including these graduate courses in public health?

Can anyone help me, with organizing a plan? I am starting my plan for 28 May, and want to finish in 12 months or less.

When do you plan to take organic chemistry? The 1-year general chemistry sequence is typically a prerequisite to organic chemistry. If you completed general chemistry at the end of Spring 2014, you'd have Summer 2014 left to complete that 8 sh in organic chemistry. Only so many schools offer this over the summer. Harvard Summer School does, in an extremely intense summer term on the ground in Cambridge. However, even that would take you into August 2014.

I suppose it's possible your school would let you take orgo after completing Chemistry I but not II. If this were the case you could start orgo in Spring. But would they even offer the full 8 sh in orgo, usually a 1-year sequence, starting and ending in Spring? Even starting in Spring rather than Fall? And would you want to take one year of orgo – a real challenge for many people even spread out over a traditional year – while also taking Gen Chem II, Bio II, Physics II, and probably A/P II?

Meanwhile, have you budgeted any protected time for MCAT preparation?

You almost certainly need to give up the 12-month timeframe.

If I were you, and starting from scratch in the premedical sciences with med school application my foremost goal, I'd also very likely put graduate public health to the side for now.

I welcome any and all criticism, comments, advice, airhugs, etc.

Consider this a little bit of each?

[Jonathan Whatley]

If you want to "crash" or fast-track the project of premedical preparation, here's one other approach.

In Summer 2013, take full-year General Chemistry with labs. You may have to register now. You might have to move out of town.

Within Fall and Spring 2013-14, take full-year Organic Chemistry, Biology, and Physics, all with labs. These will all be scheduled courses.

If your target medical schools also require courses in biochem, A/P, etc., or you're otherwise determined to take them, you might also add these on here. Watch for prerequisites: For instance, if biochem has a prerequisite of one year of bio, and the prerequisite is enforced and an exception isn't available, you can't take biochem before completing bio.

Then, any extra time you have after giving your best to these basic core requirements, you could give to other gen ed requirements including English and literature, other requirements for your major or concentration, free electives, and MCAT prep.

[sanantone]

I don't know if it would make one less competitive or how many medical schools reject distance learning sciences, but most of the prerequisites with labs can be found as online courses. It would probably be better to go for a general natural science degree. That would be quicker and easier to test out of than a biology degree. You're still going to need plenty of graded credit in order to be competitive. You will really need a GPA for the science prerequisites.

[JohnnyHeck]

My wife's an MD, and I am currently helping an RRT friend of mine prepare his pre-reqs for applying to the Keck Medical at U So. Cal. Do you have a target MD school as your pre-req "straw-man"? In what area of the country are you? Do you have a particular one of the Big 3 in mind?

IMHO Johathon is spot on regarding many issues related to your lab science pre-requisites. But one thing not mentioned is that at the time you apply to MD school, these lab courses will have to have been all taken within the last 10 years (generally referred to as a knowledge "currency requirement") While it sounds like you will be trying to blitz into grad school within a short time - stuff happens. Consider getting a Big 3 undergrad now in the quickest way possible taking whatever science courses are required as CBE non-lab. Then take all you lab sciences courses at one school on one transcript knocking the GPA for these out of the park (3.8-4.0) Then take the MCAT scoring at least what you probably know is the minimum for your target school.

As you are well aware, getting into MD school is a combination of currency of course pre-reqs, cum GPA, and MCAT rank. Regarding GPA: While every grad school will probably calculate their own GPA for you, you might have things more in your own hands by considering the following - CBEs scored only at the minimum for credit could come back to haunt you - certainly if they're in your math and science courese for which you do not repeat for currency later. A GPA based on too few credits for grade could also put you at a disadvantage compared to your traditionally schooled competitors. I would suggest you amass half your undergrad credits with a combination of graded CBEs, guided study, and online courses. Here Excelsior would hold the edge as all these grades would appear on their own transcript. You might also want to be careful about Statistics. MD school would prefer real knowledge here in Behavioral Statistices. I have found a few graded guided study ones (OH U and ISI are inexpensive too) at several universities. Although I think if your transcript included both graded math stats and a gradeed UL reasearch methods course, that this should suffiecient, e.g. ECE stats and ECE Pyschology Research Mehods come to mind as reasonalble CBE options. It's also interesting that KECK requires Spanish I,II (ungrade credit by Clep or AP OK here) for admittance.

You don't want to make things harder on yourself than is necessary, but you also want to have a high probability of reaching the goal - MD school acceptance. Good Luck!

[Jonathan Whatley]

Regarding GPA: While every grad school will probably calculate their own GPA for you, you might have things more in your own hands by considering the following - CBEs scored only at the minimum for credit could come back to haunt you - certainly if they're in your math and science courses for which you do not repeat for currency later. A GPA based on too few credits for grade could also put you at a disadvantage compared to your traditionally schooled competitors. I would suggest you amass half your undergrad credits with a combination of graded CBEs, guided study, and online courses. Here Excelsior would hold the edge as all these grades would appear on their own transcript.

Again an excellent, excellent post from JohnnyHeck.

However, a catch about credit by examination and med school application. Let's look at the 2014 AMCAS Instruction Manual, from the American Medical College Application Service, the shared application clearinghouse for U.S. MD-granting schools. On page 43:

Special Course Types

AMCAS has special designations for some courses. If applicable, assign one or more special course types by checking the corresponding box.

Advanced Placement (AP)

To claim AP credit, the credit hours must be listed on your transcript. AP courses should be entered under the term in which the college credit was initially granted. If no term is designated, include with freshman coursework (FR). […]

If the following course types appear on your official transcript, they should be indicated as AP on the AMCAS application even if they are not technically Advanced Placement:

• ACE/ACT
• Bypass Credit
• CEEB
• Credit by Exam
• Departmental Exam
• Equivalency Exam
• Experimental Learning
• French Baccalaureate
• Life Experience
• Placement Exam
• Prior Learning
• Proficiency Exam
• Retroactive Credit
• Special Credit
• Test Out
• Validation Credit

On page 44:

CLEP

You can earn CLEP credit by passing an examination offered by the College Level Examination Program (CLEP) or through USAFI/DANTES.

Hold these in mind. On page 8:

• Courses with the AMCAS grades listed below are not included in the GPA calculations. Instead, the total hours for each of these categories are reported to medical schools under the heading Supplementary Hours.
➢ Pass/Fail – Pass
➢ Pass/Fail – Fail
➢ Advanced Placement (AP) Credit
➢ College Level Examination Program (CLEP) Credit

AMCAS Instruction Manual [pdf] (The link, as of my posting date, is to the 2014 edition.)

Thus, a CLEP exam should not affect your AMCAS GPA. Anything classed as "Credit by Exam… Equivalency Exam… Proficiency Exam… Test Out," etc., should not affect your AMCAS GPA.

Even Straighterline courses, which can lead to letter grades at COSC, EC and perhaps other schools, might well go here too. They're not courses from a college. They're validated largely through the American Council on Education (ACE) through a program for "workforce training." My guess is AMCAS would count them in this broad "Advanced Placement" category on the basis of "ACE/ACT… Life Experience… Prior Learning," etc.

Credit hours from these categories will be tallied as Supplementary Hours from a Special Course Type, without grade equivalents considered at this step.

It's possible that any individual medical school could go to your original transcripts and derive GPAs internally through a different process. DO-granting (osteopathic) medical schools use a different application system. Medical schools in other countries of course have their own systems.

[sanantone]

I figured there might be several cases where CBEs would not be used in calculating GPAs for graduate school even if you receive a grade for them at your undergraduate institution.

[JohnnyHeck]

Jonathon - Thanks ever so much for the authoratative post with your detailed references to AMCAS. While we may still have to guess what will actually work, it is best to know the specifics. I am hopeful that in the case of my friend with the RRT background that the "special currency" lab courses transcript from one of the recommended sources along with a great score on the MCAT will be enough. He'll just have the play the hand he is dealt from his previously checkered academic past. But I think that if all work going forward is top notch without trying to slide through anything related to science and math without rigor will allow him to "get a look". I believe that within the application essay, one could address the GPA issue of one's undergrad work with your own "alternate AMCAS analysis" that would show clearly that even for those courese you achieved credit by exam, you would show that they were "as good as a 3.5-4.0" GPA. This of course may or may not work, but I think it's a worthy approach. Perhaps this makes TESC an initially better GPA option since at least your undergrad degree school completion GPA will not be a composite so you are not initially rejected by a computer screening criterea. Keep those posts coming. Maybe we can get some people into MD school after all.

[mosescaballero]

I would concentrate on the CLEPable Gen Eds first. Get as many of those as possible under your belt before spending money on traditional courses. You can go buy the REA books and begin studying right now.
Do not dedicate hundreds of hours to creating, searching for, and responding to discussions on this forum. Come up with a rough idea of a long-term plan, then identify short term objectives such as CLEP out of a,b,c,d in 30 days. Then begin executing that plan and tune out of the Internet including Facebook and this forum.

That is what I am planning on doing this summer. I am planning on taking all my English, Humanities, and Social Sciences through CLEP.