Long Term: Medical Field Short Term: Transfer to BM 4 year school.

[sierraecho]

Alright. Here's my story. I couldn't afford college out of high school. Grants covered school but the available loans did not cover life. Starving student wasn't the option that people said it would be as I had lots of familial responsibilities in the form of a terminally ill mother and lots of young siblings looking at me for necessities. Being the oldest I couldn't sleep at night not contributing to their well being. This route had me working multiple jobs before I finally broke down and enlisted in the military so that I could both attain some educational goals as well as provide for my family. The goal has always been medical school via the GI Bill. The military life style does not allow for taking science classes with labs (at least the Navy doesn't). That said I have been taking full advantage of the tuition assistance and free CLEP/DSST policy available to me. I'm a bit of quick learner so I have been rapidly testing out of everything thrown my way. I have 90+ credits from testing and another 30 community college credits at my disposal so far and no intention of not taking the remaining CLEP/DSST/ECEs since the Navy is paying and I'd like to make the most of my time.

With medical school (MD/DO program or PA) being the end game, how should I proceed with the Bachelor's element? Should I take what I've earned and get an associates for the sake of transferring to an appropriate 4 year? Would finishing a BS while I'm in be advisable knowing it can't/won't satisfy prereqs for Medical School? Is it more of a plus to have a 2nd Bachelors when applying to graduate programs? Do 2nd degrees have the same or similar access to financial aid?

I know these are deep questions that require lots of research and due diligence, which I am doing, but I am looking to draw from this community's experience and perspective. Thank you in advance for any help that you guys can provide.

P.S. I don't have any out of pocket expenses from the Big 3. Everything is covered via tuition assistance.

[marianne202]

I don't know why you think a bachelor's degree won't benefit you or satisfy your med school pre-reqs. If you include the necessary pre-reqs and do a pre-med program you could get a bachelor's degree that would benefit you for medical school. Why not stay in the military and let them pay for med school? I know several who have done that. After you complete a 4 year degree you will no longer be eligible for any financial grants through the government. You will qualify for student loans, but not grants. If you agree to work in hard to staff medical clinics or on indian reservations you can get some or all of your medical school loans forgiven. But you usually have to agree to work in these areas for 2-5 years. You will be required to make the necessary loan payments until you fulfill your time they you apply for the forgiveness. I have two bachelor's degrees which happened out of a time contraint, and it I didn't see any benefit when applying to grad school. I will tell you that there are also some program incentives for med students who decide to pursue family medicine instead of a speciality, so keep that in mind and look for those financial incentives, as they may help you. Do you have a medical MOS now, if so some of that may transfer into your degree too, so keep that mind as well. I wish you luck.

[sierraecho]

I'm in aviation. While I'm attempting to change jobs in the Navy, I only have access to distance learning options which eliminates any quality Chem./BioChem/Organic Chem. Sequestration and budget issues in general are causing a do more with less climate so even when I'm not deployed I'm still working 60+ hours a week not including a duty schedule which causes 24 hour workdays once a week. If I am successful in switching to Hospital Corpsman then that training will obviously be of benefit, but I'll need to leave active duty and go reservist to finish the prereqs necessary for graduate medical programs. I am applying for the Medical Enlisted to Commissioning program, which if I were selected would change everything. It's highly competitive but not open to bachelor's degree holders. It's intended to take someone with SOME college through a BioChem major and then through an MD program. Full pay and benefits with 36 months to complete the BS. If I'm not selected then I'll be leaving active duty status but will still be a reservist. Once in med school, I would go back to active duty under the HSPS programs which would pay for school plus full pay and benefits. Leaving would only be for long enough to get into a graduate program, so 2-3 years max. I'm trying to map out plan B, C, D in case these further cuts eliminate the programs I am interested in.

[cookderosa]

Alright. Here's my story. I couldn't afford college out of high school. Grants covered school but the available loans did not cover life. Starving student wasn't the option that people said it would be as I had lots of familial responsibilities in the form of a terminally ill mother and lots of young siblings looking at me for necessities. Being the oldest I couldn't sleep at night not contributing to their well being. This route had me working multiple jobs before I finally broke down and enlisted in the military so that I could both attain some educational goals as well as provide for my family. The goal has always been medical school via the GI Bill. The military life style does not allow for taking science classes with labs (at least the Navy doesn't). That said I have been taking full advantage of the tuition assistance and free CLEP/DSST policy available to me. I'm a bit of quick learner so I have been rapidly testing out of everything thrown my way. I have 90+ credits from testing and another 30 community college credits at my disposal so far and no intention of not taking the remaining CLEP/DSST/ECEs since the Navy is paying and I'd like to make the most of my time.

With medical school (MD/DO program or PA) being the end game, how should I proceed with the Bachelor's element? Should I take what I've earned and get an associates for the sake of transferring to an appropriate 4 year? Would finishing a BS while I'm in be advisable knowing it can't/won't satisfy prereqs for Medical School? Is it more of a plus to have a 2nd Bachelors when applying to graduate programs? Do 2nd degrees have the same or similar access to financial aid?

I know these are deep questions that require lots of research and due diligence, which I am doing, but I am looking to draw from this community's experience and perspective. Thank you in advance for any help that you guys can provide.

P.S. I don't have any out of pocket expenses from the Big 3. Everything is covered via tuition assistance.

The million dollar question is how your going to do the prereqs. Whether or not you get a BA isn't really relevant, except maybe in the interest of cost or time, but you have 8 classes you need to get into a plan. The chems are sequential, so that's what sets the pace (4 semesters). There is an online option, you could do the online sequence offered through University of New England Medical School. They do labs at a distance, some are virtual (on a computer sim) and others are hands on at home (you own a microscope and test tubes, do the experiments at home). In addition, once upon a time when I'd considered that route, I emailed the general bio and general chem instructors asking if they would be willing to write letters for me (a med school generally requires science letters of rec) and was told yes, but that there were limits inwhich they could evaluate my work. So, that's a consideration. University of New England - Adademics - Academic Programs/Majors

In my opinion, you're a non-trad and you'll have to defend whatever decisions you make. Everyone and their brother is going to tell you not to take your sciences online, and everyone else is going to tell you not to take them at a community college. I think those nuances are more important if you're a 21 year old kid. The bulk of applicants are, and you're going to have to make the cut, but you're going to be scrutinized differently no matter what you do. Go as traditional as you can, but go. If the only way for YOU to get your prereqs done is XYZ, then do XYZ.


P.S. Marianne touched on a few REALLY HUGE things, re-read her suggestions. She is right about cutting off your financial aid once you have a BA. Also, I know there is a medical school inside of the armed forces, I don't know what it's called, but it's an option. Student Doctor Network forum discusses it from time to time- check there. P.S.S. You'll need thick skin over there. :o

[sierraecho]

The million dollar question is how your going to do the prereqs. Whether or not you get a BA isn't really relevant, except maybe in the interest of cost or time, but you have 8 classes you need to get into a plan. The chems are sequential, so that's what sets the pace (4 semesters). There is an online option, you could do the online sequence offered through University of New England Medical School. They do labs at a distance, some are virtual (on a computer sim) and others are hands on at home (you own a microscope and test tubes, do the experiments at home). In addition, once upon a time when I'd considered that route, I emailed the general bio and general chem instructors asking if they would be willing to write letters for me (a med school generally requires science letters of rec) and was told yes, but that there were limits inwhich they could evaluate my work. So, that's a consideration. University of New England - Adademics - Academic Programs/Majors


In my opinion, you're a non-trad and you'll have to defend whatever decisions you make. Everyone and their brother is going to tell you not to take your sciences online, and everyone else is going to tell you not to take them at a community college. I think those nuances are more important if you're a 21 year old kid. The bulk of applicants are, and you're going to have to make the cut, but you're going to be scrutinized differently no matter what you do. Go as traditional as you can, but go. If the only way for YOU to get your prereqs done is XYZ, then do XYZ.

ALRIGHT! That's what I was looking for. Something I could take with me to bed tonight and think about. I've been looking for a means to satisfy those requirements so I've considered everything, but I hadn't come across that option. It gets depressing being in a war zone so studying for exams was a stress release for me. I'm two years away from completing my active duty obligation, so I've been feeling like I'll just be sitting around waiting for that day to come so that I might be able to continue with the next part of the plan. In the mean time I've racked up 120ish credits in the last year through this forum's guidance. Thank you.

[sanantone]

My problem with University of New England is that it is very expensive and their premed courses are not qualified for financial aid. Maybe you could get the military to pay for it? I don't know. Completing all of your prerequisites there could cost over $14,000 depending on what's required by the medical school of interest. Most people don't have that kind of money laying around and would have to resort to private student loans which I think should be avoided at all costs. I think the school should only be used for biochemistry with lab and organic chemistry with lab since those are hard to find as online courses. All of the other medical prerequisites can be done much cheaper somewhere else. You should also get your prerequisites pre-approved. Some schools do not accept science prerequisites that are meant for allied health majors. "Medical" is included in the titles of many of UNE's premed courses and that could be a problem. Some schools also don't accept science courses with virtual labs.

[cookderosa]

My problem with University of New England is that it is very expensive and their premed courses are not qualified for financial aid. Maybe you could get the military to pay for it? I don't know. Completing all of your prerequisites there could cost over $14,000 depending on what's required by the medical school of interest. Most people don't have that kind of money laying around and would have to resort to private student loans which I think should be avoided at all costs. I think the school should only be used for biochemistry with lab and organic chemistry with lab since those are hard to find as online courses. All of the other medical prerequisites can be done much cheaper somewhere else. You should also get your prerequisites pre-approved. Some schools do not accept science prerequisites that are meant for allied health majors. "Medical" is included in the titles of many of UNE's premed courses and that could be a problem. Some schools also don't accept science courses with virtual labs.

You're right, and last time I looked, they didn't offer physics which still means building that in. Attending as a non-degree seeker ANYWHERE means you opt out of financial aid. HOWEVER, many applicants are attending formal post-bac programs or holding degrees that include lab sciences, a non-trad has to think outside the box. I think you have to try and find an option that is both rigorous and legit, and taking via distance (-1) but at a med school where they'll write you a letter (+2) creates an acceptable balance. Of course if the OP can't attend on the ground, then you have to either wait 2 years, or do via distance. That's not my call to make, or even suggest that I have a solution for. It's possible that he'll go all in and still not get accepted. People get denied admission all day long. It's a gamble no matter who you are!

I think you need to look at the labs in one other aspect, and that you really-truly-need to learn this stuff for the MCAT. This is not a sequence of "check the box-get the credit" stuff we talk about here. If you don't LEARN biology, you're done. If you don't LEARN chem, there is no MCAT prep course that's going to help.

If it were me (and I know it's not) I would take my 120-ish credits to American Military University (because it fits neatly into his "story" regarding how/why he went for an online degree) and then I'd take a formal post-bac on the ground. (meaning holding off on ALL hard sciences until into the formal post-bac) I'd look at Harvard first. It requires 1 semester + 1 summer, but you can do it all, so you're looking at under a year and you get one hell of a letter!
IF I were dying to do "something" while I waited the 2 more years till discharge, and I couldn't do any kind of volunteer work (I don't know if that's an option on active duty) I'd enroll in a master's program- distance learning obviously- through a med school. Maybe public health, or something health-related. Something I could do for a career in the event that I didn't get into med school.
I have several cohorts in my MS Nutrition program applying to med school and another PA school, same for my sister program in health and human performance. There are a lot of related options imo.

P.S. I emailed my top 7 DO choices admissions reps + Southern Illinois's MD program, and none disallowed UNE's courses.

[sanantone]

I had no problems getting letters of recommendation from cc instructors whose courses I took online. I think an instructor is in a better position to write one when a course is taken in a traditional format whether it's online or on campus.

[Daithi]

As Marianne suggested, you also may want to consider your military options. The Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USUHS) program is a great option. This is basically Med-School offered by the military. They will require that you have a bachelors and that you have done the medical pre-reqs. As Sanatone suggested, there are several online options to take care of many of these, and for pre-reqs like Organic Chemistry w/ Lab, you could also use Cookderosa's suggestion of University of New England. From what I understand, getting into medical school at all is really difficult. Getting into USUHS still isn't easy, but I understand they give prior and current military some preference. You'll still need a great GPA and MCAT score and letters of recommendation. If you go this route you will basically start out as an OC-1 while your in med-school, and after you finish med-school you are promoted to OC-3, and after your residency you have to serve 7 more years. This is 7 years that other doctors will be making more money than you, but it isn't as much as you might think. When you start adding all the special pay that medical officers receive your base salary goes up pretty quick, as most medical officers get paid around $40,000 to $55,000 in bonuses depending on their specialty. If you include Basic Allowance for Housing with your base pay you'll probably be making over 6 figures a year while you do those 7 years. Plus you don't have to malpractice insurance, and of course, one of the biggest benefits is the Navy is going to pay for your medical school -- that is like a $200,000 check in itself. Plus, by the time you finish your 7 year obligation you will have you 4 years enlisted, 4 years in medical school, 4 years residency, and 7 years serving as a doctor. That's 19 years and with 1 more year you'll get a pretty decent pension at the age of 38, so for the rest of your life the Navy will send you basically half the base pay you were making when you "retired." So, you'll start your career as a civilian physician getting an extra $30,000 or so for life. If this sounds like a viable option, you can contact the USUHS Admissions Office at DSN 295-3102 or (301) 295-3102. There is also quite a bit of discussion on this program at StudentDoctor.Net and a few other boards.

[cookderosa]

As Marianne suggested, you also may want to consider your military options. The Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USUHS) program is a great option. This is basically Med-School offered by the military. They will require that you have a bachelors and that you have done the medical pre-reqs. As Sanatone suggested, there are several online options to take care of many of these, and for pre-reqs like Organic Chemistry w/ Lab, you could also use Cookderosa's suggestion of University of New England. From what I understand, getting into medical school at all is really difficult. Getting into USUHS still isn't easy, but I understand they give prior and current military some preference. You'll still need a great GPA and MCAT score and letters of recommendation. If you go this route you will basically start out as an OC-1 while your in med-school, and after you finish med-school you are promoted to OC-3, and after your residency you have to serve 7 more years. This is 7 years that other doctors will be making more money than you, but it isn't as much as you might think. When you start adding all the special pay that medical officers receive your base salary goes up pretty quick, as most medical officers get paid around $40,000 to $55,000 in bonuses depending on their specialty. If you include Basic Allowance for Housing with your base pay you'll probably be making over 6 figures a year while you do those 7 years. Plus you don't have to malpractice insurance, and of course, one of the biggest benefits is the Navy is going to pay for your medical school -- that is like a $200,000 check in itself. Plus, by the time you finish your 7 year obligation you will have you 4 years enlisted, 4 years in medical school, 4 years residency, and 7 years serving as a doctor. That's 19 years and with 1 more year you'll get a pretty decent pension at the age of 38, so for the rest of your life the Navy will send you basically half the base pay you were making when you "retired." So, you'll start your career as a civilian physician getting an extra $30,000 or so for life. If this sounds like a viable option, you can contact the USUHS Admissions Office at DSN 295-3102 or (301) 295-3102. There is also quite a bit of discussion on this program at StudentDoctor.Net and a few other boards.

All that and a bowl of cherries. Seriously, do that.