Help me set a game plan...

[wantajd]

Hi all...

Very thankful I found this website!!!! Have just spent like 8 hours reading through thousands of posts!

OK, based on what I've learned here and elsewhere, my goals are:

1- Bachelor's from Excelsior (to get a GPA)
2- Prep for and take the LSAT
3- Apply to local ABA accredited law school (Stetson).

Now here's my scenario:
They skipped me from 7th grade to HS and there I took double everything and wound up graduating at age 15 already with AP courses in computer science and English under my belt. I mention my age back then, not to boast or anything but because:

I then attended U of Maryland (out-of-state, ouch!) for one semester... I was TOTALLY unhappy there, they placed me in an "honors dorm" where 99% were juniors and seniors... which meant they were in their 20s and I was 16... not a good mix. Plus, it was the first time I was separated from all friends and family, cold turkey. All-in-all the other students were pleasant, but no friends or anything. Sooo... I became disinterested in the whole thing and learned how to juggle beanbags for $15,000. Wound up with I think an A or B in English and a C in something else and D's and F's for the rest... quite a shock for my family. First grade lower than a B for me in my life, I just shut off what can I say.

I then left the country and immediately got work as a computer programmer (back in 1993, this was top notch) because of a gas station management app I made up... and ran a small cafeteria as well.

That company was sold and the owner started a taxi and radio communications company in 1995 where he brought me in as a network administrator. The head electronics and radio technician turned out to be fleecing him and they asked me if I could substitute for him (only installing the radios supposedly) while they got someone else. They never did, so I wound up getting really involved in electronics and setting up radio communications systems, repeaters and phone patching. Meanhile, I took an interest in photography as a hobby.

Next in 1998, I became frustrated with the lack of growth of that company due to mismanagement and decided to move back to the US... got married and did so.

My first job here was as a Field Service Admin for SYSCO Foods... managed their Unix servers and a fleet of 200+ laptops and remote client desktops. I also moonlighted in photography for kicks and started dabbling with selling stuff on eBay.

This was up in Philadelphia (which I can't stand, but needed the family support to start from zero) so as soon as I could, I packed up a u-haul (Pennske really), quit a perfectly good Fortune 500 company job and moved to Tampa in 2000, never having been here before.

I quickly got a job as a Network Admin for a mortgage company and continued with my eBay stuff... in less than a year that company was shut down by the Feds...

I then was hired by JP Morgan Chase to provide IT support to their processors and loan officers, within a few months was promoted to handle support and reporting for their entire automated underwriting system... and realized I knew the mortgage industry front and back, inside and out, and that I was on the wrong side of the payscale. I also moonlighted as a translator while there.

Sooo, I quit an excellent job at a fortune 100 company and became a mortgage broker... this job left me NO time for side businesses. After a year there I disagreed with the abusive charging practices / management style of that company and decided to set up my own shop... that was 2 and a half years ago and despite the turmoil in the industry I run my small company and can charge fairly and by keeping expenses down, and living within means, not worry too much about the lost revenue of the last year.

Anyhow... I have NEVER believed in "needing" a college degree to be financially successful in life... and I think I've proved this to myself, no. :p
Now, if someone asks me if they should get a degree, I always say "Not necessarily", unless you SERIOUSLY want to pursue a career where it is mandatory . By which I mean, doctors, lawyers... etc.

There are just so many ways to make a great living, not incur the debt, and spend more time with family, by taking industry-specific courses and training... now, this was before I knew about legitimately "testing-out"... here we get the best of both worlds. Very manageable expense, plus the magical line on the resume (for those that need it)... I just can't stand to see people incur 50k in debt to get an accounting degree and then work in marketing! Where if they would have taken that same 50k and started a small marketing company and ran it for 4 years, they would easily be hired at a higher salary than someone with no experience and only the degree. Except they probably would have no need to get another job! Just my opinion... not the point of this post.

Anyhow again... my last moonlighting venture has been interpreting for the federal courts for about 6 months now. This fits in perfectly with my mortgages because it's only short periods of time and on an as-needed basis. The pay is extremely good too, since the federal cert that I got (just for kicks) is highly regarded. It has a 97% fail rate (and most that take it are career translators/interpreters already, so that's 97% of a specialized pool that fail it)... sooo... this has really gotten me enamoured with the judicial system... I LOVE being involved in the process and witnessing how laws get interpreted and applied.

So, I've gotten bit by the law bug... but of course... "no law school" = "no attorney". And worse: "no degree" = "no ABA law school"... Hence, my roadmap all the way at the top of this mountainous post...

Now, my question to you pros here... should (or can) I start from zero with Excelsior? Is there a way to get credit for those AP classes in HS which did give me credits at Uof Maryland by the way? Should I request a transcript from them knowing I bombed all those courses just to salvage my one or two good grades? Or will this bring in the bad stuff too? Is it even possible to not have them consider my old colege scores, or is this attached to my name somewhere like a credit report for grades?

Lastly, do you think Excelsior will give me credits for my "coveted" :p interpreter certification? How about my A+ cert from ComptIA? Oh, I also have a private pilot's license, does that count for anything? Mortgage broker license?

I want to aim for a high GPA with Excelsior, and totally kill the LSAT... to increase my chances for Stetson... hopefully with my crazy background they can be a bit lenient on my testing out of everything since I want as few traditional courses as possible... well, till law school.

Thanks!

WantaJD

[gcalvin]

Hi WantaJD,

You can definitely start from zero and get your Excelsior degree. What's more, you can do it almost entirely by examination. You should talk with an academic advisor at Excelsior, and you should probably talk to an advisor at Stetson as well. Ask tough questions -- you're entitled, since you'll be spending real money. Ask Excelsior whether their graduates have been admitted to law schools, and to Stetson in particular. Ask Stetson whether a degree from Excelsior will be respected (it should be, but ask anyway). Ask Stetson what concentration or major would be preferred, and then ask Excelsior how to achieve that concentration or major with maximum credit-by-exam. Then ask us here again. hilarious

My story is somewhat like yours. I graduated high school at 18, but was considered "gifted" and easily admitted at University of Michigan with an Air Force ROTC scholarship. I washed out badly in my first year, slowly recovered, worked in retail for a while, then built a career in Information Technology. Did that for about fifteen years and started getting burned out. Meanwhile started learning Japanese just for fun, and singing Japanese songs at karaoke bars in Little Tokyo. I also play piano in a big band.

Last month, while killing time on-line, I stumbled across the bain4weeks.com site, and thought "hey, I could do that". I took my first CLEP on 11/27, and in three weeks I have amassed 78 credits by examination -- two and a half years toward a four-year degree. I sort of have law school in the back of my mind as well (my kid brother recently got accepted at U-M Law School). But I also might try teaching, or spend a year or two in Japan teaching English. But first things first, eyes on the prize, nose to the grindstone, etc. -- I want to have the work finished for my degree before my 47th birthday on Feb. 12. Looking at what I have left to do, I may even be able to move that up and finish before 01/27/08, which would be a four-year degree in two months.

So you can do this. It's a lot like those all-nighters you pulled when you were learning programming or figuring out radios. It's that same kind of rush from making progress and not wanting to quit until you see what's around the next corner. Good luck!

[barcotta]

Yeh--you and gcalvin are going to be able to polish this off in no time--with or without your previous credits. To be honest, if you have one of those minds that functions on overdrive, it's going to be more efficient to test out of the whole thing. Almost every time I tried to figure out how to maximize previous credits, experiences etc., I realized that I could've just tested out a whole lot faster. It's a lot of rigamorole (sp.?) but for someone with a mortgage background, it's probably nothing anyway so, basically, anything you try will likely work. My shots at answering some of your questions are below:

Now, my question to you pros here... should (or can) I start from zero with Excelsior? Is there a way to get credit for those AP classes in HS which did give me credits at Uof Maryland by the way? Yes, there is a way. Once you register, they'll tell you what to do. I figured it out by poking around on-line first. Should I request a transcript from them knowing I bombed all those courses just to salvage my one or two good grades? If it's only one or two--that'll be half a morning of testing for you. Or will this bring in the bad stuff too? It will after December 31 but it WON'T count against your degree GPA. However, I think you need to stack the odds in your favor and since it will be on your transcript--even if it's not counted--I wouldn't do it.Is it even possible to not have them consider my old colege scores, or is this attached to my name somewhere like a credit report for grades? Good question. That's why I would leave it out and hope they don't find it. If they do, just tell them, "Good God, give me a break--I was 16!"

Lastly, do you think Excelsior will give me credits for my "coveted" :p interpreter certification? My guess is no. How about my A+ cert from ComptIA? That sounds familiar. You should download the "Students Guide to Credit by Examination" (or something like that) from http://www.excelsior.edu which includes all of the translatable certifications.

[wantajd]

I took my first CLEP on 11/27, and in three weeks I have amassed 78 credits by examination -- two and a half years toward a four-year degree.

Wow! That's amazing! Do you know what scores you've received? Are you aiming for a certain GPA or just passing everything?

If I'm going for a high, actually-reported-to-the-law-school-GPA what are the best types of exams to take? BTW, I've read that the CLEPs aren't normally good for this, but that somehow Excelsior gives a grade for them? Could someone clarify this for me?

So you can do this. It's a lot like those all-nighters you pulled when you were learning programming or figuring out radios. It's that same kind of rush from making progress and not wanting to quit until you see what's around the next corner. Good luck!

Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah, when I get caught up in learning something I think I put in more hours than a PhD would on the subject... :p it's insane, sometimes on the silliest topics too. The other day I spent some 15-20 hours learning everything I could about preparing an espresso. I don't have the equipment to make a "true" one, but I know more than any barista at Starbucks would. I'm not proud of that either, it's time I could have spent on better things, but I just can't let go of a subject when I'm curious about it. I don't even drink much coffee!! :confused:

So, what's the best way:
Take all the CLEPs, then enroll at Excelsior, or enroll first, then take the tests? I can't imagine (hope not, anyway) taking more than a year to finish so I'm not concerned about the risk of another $500 yearly fee... aside from this, is there any other dis/advantage?

Thanks again, you guys are great!

[wantajd]

My shots at answering some of your questions are below:

Thanks for the advice!
Yeah, I'll try and get my AP credits from high school... and leave out UofM unless they say I have to mention anything I've ever done at all.

I went to Excelsior's website and created an account to access that guide you mentioned...
1- Looks like I get 2 credits for my Comptia A+...
2- They mention accepting FAA certifications, but nothing specific, so maybe my pilot's license will get me some credits... it should, that license took TONS of classroom time and exams.
3a- No mention of the Federal Court Intepreter Certification (not a surprise really), but man, this thing should count for 35-40 credits by itself. :p TOUGHEST exam I've ever taken in my life. They give it in two parts, written one year, oral the next. Can't take the oral if you don't pass the written. So, if you fail the written, you gotta wait two years to try again. :eek:
3b- Well, at the very least I know I can take the Spanish tests without studying to get a few quick credits.

[Chebasaz]

That's a great life story, and was extremely entertaining to read.

I was much like you with my viewpoint on degrees. Being in IT (The practical side vs the theoretical), industry certifications were always more important to me than a college degree. Still, I'm a big fan of having options, and it seems that we all come to a place in life where having a degree opens up a door that we might decide to walk through one day.

Besides... The tests are fun to take. Well.. 99% of them anyway.

[gcalvin]

Wow! That's amazing! Do you know what scores you've received? Are you aiming for a certain GPA or just passing everything?

I do want a high GPA, but it's mainly for me -- I don't expect it to be important to anybody else. So far I have one B (in Labor Relations) and I think I'll live with it.

If I'm going for a high, actually-reported-to-the-law-school-GPA what are the best types of exams to take? BTW, I've read that the CLEPs aren't normally good for this, but that somehow Excelsior gives a grade for them? Could someone clarify this for me?

No grades for the CLEPs at Excelsior -- they are strictly pass/fail. They do award grades for the DSSTs and for their own ECEs. I believe I read that their new policy will be to have one Excelsior GPA and also an overall GPA (which would include the DSST exams) printed on the transcripts.

So, what's the best way:
Take all the CLEPs, then enroll at Excelsior, or enroll first, then take the tests? I can't imagine (hope not, anyway) taking more than a year to finish so I'm not concerned about the risk of another $500 yearly fee... aside from this, is there any other dis/advantage?

If you are sure you want to get your degree from Excelsior (and from what you've said, it does seem like a good plan for you) then I would say go ahead and enroll now. They do have some helpful features on their web site, like the Virtual Library, that are only available to enrolled students. But meanwhile you can go ahead and start taking CLEPs. Get yourself a paper copy of the CLEP Official Guide and the Princeton Review Cracking the CLEP. You'll probably find several exams you can pass without any study -- go ahead and take them. Basically, if your raw score on a practice exam in either of those books is over 60% (some say 50%) then you can take the real exam with confidence. Remember, they're pass/fail anyway, so a 51 is just as good as a 79.

If you haven't seen it yet, take a look at the bain4weeks site, but keep in mind that it is more than three years out-of-date now. There is still a lot of good information there, though.

Good Luck!

-Gary-

[soltran]

G'day,

Excelsior claim to accept ACE recommendations. Try looking at your qualifications at ACENET.edu. From memory I paid $40 to join and they consolidated my Microsoft Office Specialist certifications and sent a transcript to Excelsior. This gave me 8 easy credits.

I did a search on pilot, and without knowing what you do to get a pilots license I found the following:

ACE Transcript Data: FAA-5063
Organization: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Academy
Credit Recommendation: In the lower division baccalaureate/associate degree category, 3 semester hours in Aviation Management (7/06).

There are also Mortgage Broker and Translator qualifications and credit recommendations listed.

I hope this is of some help

Regards

[cannoda]

You might as well transfer your UM credits - you'll have to send ALL college transcripts with your law school application. If you don't and they find out, you'll get a rejection letter. If you get through law school and pass the bar, you can actually get disbarred for not disclosing your stint at UM.

If you have anywhere near a decent gpa, your life story should get you in.

[johnysc430]

All ABA law schools should consider Excelsior because it's listed on LSAC but under the old name Regents College, The code is 2899. I called Excelsior today about this.