For-Profit Colleges Continue to Harm Poor Students

[LevelUP]

I looked at all of Capella's undergraduate stats, including part-time and full-time first-time students, and part-time and full-time transfer students. The highest graduation rate was 36%. The rest were abysmally low.

Capella’s overall completion rate is 42%.
Capella’s retention rate is 58%.

https://www.capella.edu/content/dam/cape..._Sheet.pdf

I recently completed my capstone which discussed the differences between Synchronous and Asynchronous learning.

Capella doesn't have physical classrooms for pretty much all their students.  They learn online and some people just are unable to learn online for a variety of reasons such as no discipline, lack of social opportunities, and they prefer campus life.  That's one of the main reasons why completion rates are low for purely online colleges.

People that do well learning online are people that are Introverts, people that can accelerate learning online by not having speed limits set by teachers or other students, and when learning online fits their learning style.

Some people have full-time jobs, families and they can't go and sit in a classroom like a traditional student.  So the opportunity to learn online is their only option.  Otherwise, they may be stuck in their current situation and have trouble moving up in life.

Yes, a lot of traditional colleges now offer online options now but isn't this a response to the free market innovation set by the purely online colleges?  The government certainly did not develop any of the software that is being used in online learning.

People freak out when they see a low completion rate number because they don't understand the reasons behind it.  WGU for example often will make students complete one class online before they allow students to attend their school to weed out people that will quit early.

[Vle045]

A lot of interesting points throughout this thread. Here are my thoughts in general.

Community College is a very separate animal when it comes to graduation rates. I know that a lot of people do not necessarily use their community college to get a degree. It is used by high school students for dual credit, it is used between terms by students who are home for the summer, it is used by community members who just want to take a class to learn something specific. Heck, it is used by people like us who want to grab some RA credits before transferring to one of the Big 5! (Yeah, I said five. LOL) The list goes on.

WGU is relentless. I inquired there and they call, text and email me constantly.

It took me over 20 years to pay off the debt from my first degree. I think tuition was about $7,000 a year back then, and I had some small grants. My average pay has been in the ballpark of $30,000. So, pretty blah. Pretty hard to “sell” my son on college with that outcome.

[ss20ts]

I recently completed my capstone which discussed the differences between Synchronous and Asynchronous learning.

Capella doesn't have physical classrooms for pretty much all their students.  They learn online and some people just are unable to learn online for a variety of reasons such as no discipline, lack of social opportunities, and they prefer campus life.  That's one of the main reasons why completion rates are low for purely online colleges.

People that do well learning online are people that are Introverts, people that can accelerate learning online by not having speed limits set by teachers or other students, and when learning online fits their learning style.

Some people have full-time jobs, families and they can't go and sit in a classroom like a traditional student.  So the opportunity to learn online is their only option.  Otherwise, they may be stuck in their current situation and have trouble moving up in life.

Yes, a lot of traditional colleges now offer online options now but isn't this a response to the free market innovation set by the purely online colleges?  The government certainly did not develop any of the software that is being used in online learning.

People freak out when they see a low completion rate number because they don't understand the reasons behind it.  WGU for example often will make students complete one class online before they allow students to attend their school to weed out people that will quit early.

There are so many forms of online learning and everyone isn't great at all of them! You can have the same format and it love one professor and subject yet struggle with a different professor or different subject. 

Now that I'm in a scheduled format again with discussions and multiple papers due every week, I want out. It's too much to do and deal with life. I LOVED the competency based part of UMPI. I could take as many classes as I wanted - 1 or 2 at a time. Get through them and move on to the next one without multiple discussions and multiple papers in 1 week. There were some aspects I did miss. I wish I had a way to communicate with others who were in the YourPace program especially folks taking the same classes. If nothing else but to say hi you're not alone! Online learning is very lonely. There's a lot of pressure on you to complete a great deal of work in a short amount of time and then you do that over and over for weeks. I can't imagine sitting in a classroom for 15 weeks now learning 1 class. I'd lose my mind! 

People have jobs, families, kids, sickness, pets, holidays, vacations, sports, activities, all kinds of reasons they don't finish a degree. The graduation rates also only count students for 4 or 6 years. If you're a part time student, you won't complete a bachelor's degree in 6 years. You're also not often counted if you go back to school years later and finish your degree. Most online schools are targeting nontraditional students - adults who have jobs, families, responsibilities. Of course they will have much lower and slower graduation rates than b&m schools who focus on 18-22 year olds who have nothing to do in life except play beer pong. Comparing traditional and nontraditional students are like comparing apples to batteries. They only thing they share in common is that they're humans.

[sanantone]

I looked at all of Capella's undergraduate stats, including part-time and full-time first-time students, and part-time and full-time transfer students. The highest graduation rate was 36%. The rest were abysmally low.

Capella’s overall completion rate is 42%.
Capella’s retention rate is 58%.

https://www.capella.edu/content/dam/cape..._Sheet.pdf

I recently completed my capstone which discussed the differences between Synchronous and Asynchronous learning.

Capella doesn't have physical classrooms for pretty much all their students.  They learn online and some people just are unable to learn online for a variety of reasons such as no discipline, lack of social opportunities, and they prefer campus life.  That's one of the main reasons why completion rates are low for purely online colleges.

People that do well learning online are people that are Introverts, people that can accelerate learning online by not having speed limits set by teachers or other students, and when learning online fits their learning style.

Some people have full-time jobs, families and they can't go and sit in a classroom like a traditional student.  So the opportunity to learn online is their only option.  Otherwise, they may be stuck in their current situation and have trouble moving up in life.

Yes, a lot of traditional colleges now offer online options now but isn't this a response to the free market innovation set by the purely online colleges?  The government certainly did not develop any of the software that is being used in online learning.

People freak out when they see a low completion rate number because they don't understand the reasons behind it.  WGU for example often will make students complete one class online before they allow students to attend their school to weed out people that will quit early.

My comment was in reference to Capella's undergraduate degree graduation rates. 

The pioneers of distance and online learning were mostly public colleges. I don't know if it's still the case, but several years ago, community colleges had the most online students. Experimentation with offering online classes started at non-profit universities I believe in the 80s. The older for-profit colleges that ended up being huge online providers by the late 90s and early 2000s were benefiting from research conducted by the government and traditional universities. Before that, schools like University of Phoenix mostly taught students in strip malls and rented spaces in business towers.

---

I recently completed my capstone which discussed the differences between Synchronous and Asynchronous learning.

Capella doesn't have physical classrooms for pretty much all their students.  They learn online and some people just are unable to learn online for a variety of reasons such as no discipline, lack of social opportunities, and they prefer campus life.  That's one of the main reasons why completion rates are low for purely online colleges.

People that do well learning online are people that are Introverts, people that can accelerate learning online by not having speed limits set by teachers or other students, and when learning online fits their learning style.

Some people have full-time jobs, families and they can't go and sit in a classroom like a traditional student.  So the opportunity to learn online is their only option.  Otherwise, they may be stuck in their current situation and have trouble moving up in life.

Yes, a lot of traditional colleges now offer online options now but isn't this a response to the free market innovation set by the purely online colleges?  The government certainly did not develop any of the software that is being used in online learning.

People freak out when they see a low completion rate number because they don't understand the reasons behind it.  WGU for example often will make students complete one class online before they allow students to attend their school to weed out people that will quit early.

There are so many forms of online learning and everyone isn't great at all of them! You can have the same format and it love one professor and subject yet struggle with a different professor or different subject. 

Now that I'm in a scheduled format again with discussions and multiple papers due every week, I want out. It's too much to do and deal with life. I LOVED the competency based part of UMPI. I could take as many classes as I wanted - 1 or 2 at a time. Get through them and move on to the next one without multiple discussions and multiple papers in 1 week. There were some aspects I did miss. I wish I had a way to communicate with others who were in the YourPace program especially folks taking the same classes. If nothing else but to say hi you're not alone! Online learning is very lonely. There's a lot of pressure on you to complete a great deal of work in a short amount of time and then you do that over and over for weeks. I can't imagine sitting in a classroom for 15 weeks now learning 1 class. I'd lose my mind! 

People have jobs, families, kids, sickness, pets, holidays, vacations, sports, activities, all kinds of reasons they don't finish a degree. The graduation rates also only count students for 4 or 6 years. If you're a part time student, you won't complete a bachelor's degree in 6 years. You're also not often counted if you go back to school years later and finish your degree. Most online schools are targeting nontraditional students - adults who have jobs, families, responsibilities. Of course they will have much lower and slower graduation rates than b&m schools who focus on 18-22 year olds who have nothing to do in life except play beer pong. Comparing traditional and nontraditional students are like comparing apples to batteries. They only thing they share in common is that they're humans.

It's pretty routine to have 6-year and 8-year graduation rates for 4-year programs. The government started tracking up to 8 years several years ago. 

I was a non-traditional student who worked full-time. I dropped out of two for-profit colleges. What ended up working well for me was taking a bunch of online classes cheaply at the local community colleges and testing out of the rest of my credits. I finished two bachelor's degrees and two associate's degrees at TESU. I know tests aren't ideal for everyone, but there are other options. Without an abundance of competency-based programs years ago, TESU, COSC, and Excelsior were the most flexible schools. These three schools plus Empire pioneered adult education back in the 1970s.

Which reminds me...all of today's competency-based programs are copying WGU. WGU is a nonprofit university that was founded by multiple state governors, hence the name. In reality, it's a semi-public institution that receives funding from a few states.