Fantasy U

[sanantone]

I am going to hold my tongue for now on the CRT issue and come back to the original purpose of the thread.

I understand the arguments that most of you have made, that different subjects have values in ensuring that college graduates are well rounded and able to think critically in important areas. On some level, I agree with that. That said, that is what the liberal arts portion of the university curriculum at pretty much every college and university already allows students to do. A couple of English classes, a math course or 2, a science course or 2, a couple of other courses in humanities, a couple of courses in the social sciences: that’s pretty much what people are already taking.

By giving students more say over the courses that meet those requirements, you often are making education available to more students. Statistics is awesome. It’s really valuable and, along with things like economics and political science, can be super valuable in understanding the socio-economy of a city, region, or country. Statistics is also hard for a lot of people. If you require it for a college degree, that means that many very smart, very capable people are going to be denied that diploma. The same is really true for any requirement that mandates a specific course.

I also read pretty much all of these posts and have the opposite reaction. My ideal university would be much more like many universities in Europe. If I want to study a particular discipline, why should I spend perhaps 2/3 of my coursework studying things that aren’t particularly relevant to my field of study?

My ideal university would offer a 3-year or a 4-year bachelor’s degree. The four year curriculum would be basically what we have now, with a broad liberal arts base and a major field that composes perhaps 1/4-1/3 of the overall coursework. The 3-year degree would be much more focused on the major subject. A biology student, for instance, would take biology course, of course, along with closely related and relevant courses in other disciplines (math, chemistry, physics, physical anthropology, etc). And before you say, “a person can’t take 15 hours of all science course each semester, it’s too much”, I don’t disagree that this would be really hard. That’s why I think there should be built-in, credit bearing lab work, internships, externships, field placements, etc.  Want to become a doctor?  How about you graduate a year earlier having spent a year working in a research lab (for credit), a year working at a local medical testing facility (for credit), and a year shadowing doctors (for credit)?  To me, that makes far more sense than what we have now. That is why it would never happen.

Intro to statistics is not hard and doesn't have to be math-based. There are concept-based statistics classes being taught to non-quantitative students. A lot of people fail English Comp I and II, but most would agree that these courses should be required. If you can't pass intro courses, especially ones watered down for non-majors, then maybe college isn't the best path for you. One thing that annoys me to no end is journalists writing news articles on research articles and getting it all wrong.

Here's the thing people get wrong when comparing the UK system with the U.S. system. There are different paths in the UK for those who want to go to college and those who don't. Those who want to go to college stay in high school after the age of 16. So, they're basically completing freshman-level college courses before entering a university. They have to do well on their A levels or so some other Level 3 qualification to get into a university. An Indian told me that pre-college requirements in India are even longer than UK requirements. Many people don't enter university until they're about 20. The U.S. system isn't designed like that, but you can take AP courses and exams, enter an IB program, and/or take dual credit courses. In Germany, they track their students. If they determine you are not cut out for college, you're put on a vocational track. So, those people you say wouldn't go to college if they were forced to take certain courses would probably be taken out of the college track in Germany altogether. 

The U.S. has a very loose system that allows everyone into college. On one hand, it gives everyone a chance to prove themselves. On the other hand, it leads to low college graduation rates, particularly at non-selective colleges.