Dumbing down education

[Hometeacher628]

Yesterday I went to the bookstore of a prestigious private 4 year University to pick up a book and lab packet for DD#1 Physiology class. I saw the Calculus book her homeschool high school uses for their Calc class, which gave me pause to look further. There were four developmental math classes with math packets on paper 3hole drilled and cellophane wrapped. Yes, I said 4 developmental math classes! Starting with PreAlgebra, MAT035!!! What in the world are kids being taught in high school?

I am not the math brainiac in my family. In fact, when I was in college, I took Math for Teachers as my math coursework because it was the easiest math class possible. Oooooh, I just realized I may have answered my own question!

When my Daughter needed a tutor ( our high school provides at no cost for all district kids) I dropped her off at the local high school. She stayed there all 7 class periods in the same math resource room as a different math teacher came every period. Each one asked her what book she was using. Each one told her to ask Mr. 13letter name from India who tutors during period 7 and teaches AP math. She was a Sophmore taking high school Pre-Calc. Could an average math teacher not do Pre-Calc tutoring at the high school level without the answer key???

Maybe we should have teachers first get a degree in the field in which they desire to teach, then acquire a teaching certificate. Some states require this, but most do not. It seems many teachers get a degree in classroom management. How else could you explain a college student needing a PreAlgebra developmental course? Someone is NOT doing their job.

[cookderosa]

Maybe we should have teachers first get a degree in the field in which they desire to teach, then acquire a teaching certificate.

This. You're preaching to the choir on this one. I've said this since day 1 as well. In my opinion, the reason this is NOT the case, is because it promotes the myth that teachers have a specialized "teaching" skill that keeps us peons -who don't hold degrees in education- from being qualified to teach. It's an essential function to keep this myth alive, without it, people wouldn't support govt-based education as strongly. Before anyone accuses me of being paranoid, look at the hiring differences between public and private schools. Public schools require teachers with degrees in education and a license from the state- private schools do not. Furthermore, if you earn your degree in education, but then if you want to complete your student teaching outside of public school (like a Christian school) it won't qualify for state licensure. *I'm sure there are states where this isn't still true, especially with the rise of alternative entry, but it's still the norm*

I really, honestly don't think parents know that their teachers don't have degrees in the subjects they teach.

If you hold a PhD in physics, you're not qualified to teach physics. If you hold a master's of science in mathematics, you're not qualified to teach math to 3rd graders. If you are a Grammy award winner you are not qualified to teach music.... would anyone argue that any of those people wouldn't be worthy teachers if their heart was in teaching? They'd ALL be qualified to teach in college, but not children.

Teachers will argue that their coursework in education is important. It probably is. But in my opinion, a survey of teaching methods/evaluation courses could be a sequence completed within a major, not instead of a major. This is how medical schools bring in students- you can major in anything (literature) but by completing an 8-course sequence (pre med) and an entrance exam, you then apply to med school. There are no pre-med majors, it doesn't exist.

I'd like to see teachers earn degrees in their subject, and hold a teaching credential that is earned alongside of their subject. I can think of a dozen political reasons that will never happen.

*edit* one other quick thing I wanted to say. Frequently, people will ask a homeschool parent if they think they're "qualified" to teach their 4th grader "all those subjects." That question implies that the 4th grade teacher has more education in "all those subjects" than the average parent. If a parent holds any degree in which they've completed 60ish general education courses, then that parent absolutely has enough education. The parent -in the strictest sense- may not have training in classroom management or teaching methods, but since the parent isn't attempting to educate a group of children, it's unnecessary. Now, parents don't need a college degree to be a homeschooler, but I'm just pointing out that the assumption is usually that the teacher is MORE educated thus BECAUSE they have more education. Research shows all the time that more education of teachers is not relevant to the student's success. It's a tangled mess of myth and assumption; I'm glad it's not my problem to fix.

[SwaggyP]

I find that Teachers Unions (not the teachers themselves, rarely do the 2 major unions even represent the needs of their teachers on the front-line) are to blame for most of the problems in public education, including this one. Then we ask why American students don't develop a passion for math, science, etc. A passionate and educated teacher in the classroom would be a good place to start.

[sanantone]

In Texas, we don't have degrees in education. You pick an actual major (many aspiring elementary teachers choose interdisciplinary studies) and take courses on a teacher certification track. It's similar to being on a premed or pre-law track except you're actually training for a certification. This doesn't really solve anything, though. One can become certified in any subject just by passing the corresponding TEXES exam. Because we have a shortage of physical science and math teachers, my math teacher for two years had a biology degree and my physics teacher had a microbiology degree. If Texas were to become strict and only allow those with math degrees to teach math, then we would have an even more severe shortage of math teachers.

[OfficerA]

In Texas, we don't have degrees in education. You pick an actual major (many aspiring elementary teachers choose interdisciplinary studies) and take courses on a teacher certification track. It's similar to being on a premed or pre-law track except you're actually training for a certification. This doesn't really solve anything, though. One can become certified in any subject just by passing the corresponding TEXES exam. Because we have a shortage of physical science and math teachers, my math teacher for two years had a biology degree and my physics teacher had a microbiology degree. If Texas were to become strict and only allow those with math degrees to teach math, then we would have an even more severe shortage of math teachers.

I was curious as to why "Troops to Teachers" here were so quick to reassure us during their briefing that no matter where our degrees are from, we still had a high chance of becoming teachers when we leave the service (they strongly hinted a bachelor's at least, as they didn't bother looking at my CCAF). Now I'm starting to get why.

Coincidentally this is where I first saw just how... limited? a CJ degree was, as an E9 Superintendent with a bachelor's in it came up apologizing to one of the reps about his "worthless" degree (his words, not mine), but again was reassured that this wouldn't be a problem with Troops to Teachers.

[sanantone]

I was curious as to why "Troops to Teachers" here were so quick to reassure us during their briefing that no matter where our degrees are from, we still had a high chance of becoming teachers when we leave the service (they strongly hinted a bachelor's at least, as they didn't bother looking at my CCAF). Now I'm starting to get why.

Coincidentally this is where I first saw just how... limited? a CJ degree was, as an E9 Superintendent with a bachelor's in it came up apologizing to one of the reps about his "worthless" degree (his words, not mine), but again was reassured that this wouldn't be a problem with Troops to Teachers.

When I was temporarily in an alternative teacher certification program, they recommended that I test for special education because of my social science degree filled with psychology courses, but I was going to test for biology. Obviously, I have no biology degree.

[Hometeacher628]

As a homeschooler I have consistently looked for professional experience before teaching experience every time. Most all have had advanced degrees, many Ph'd in their field, with the heart to teach a class of homeschooled kids. On the fly practical application-that is how to transfer passion to a student about a subject. I have never heard from my kids, "Why do I have to learn this? I'll never use it. Dd#1 had a Ph'd patent holding rocket scientist for her high school Chemistry class. Her Chemistry note book looked like nothing I had ever seen before. All of her public school friends were still memorizing the periodic table 1/3 into the school year. Dd's professor gave his class the periodic table and said that by the end of the year they'd have it memorized because they would be working with it so much. I had never seen so much math in my life! It absolutely looked like a foreign language to me. He had all these kids "working through their Chemistry". Just Inspiring. Her college Chemistry this semester at a University is a cakewalk compared to her high school class.

[Hometeacher628]

I'm just saying that we seem to realize the value of education as we are older. If I were the student who scored a PreAlgebra math placement as a college student, I'd be half tempted to sue the school district where I attended K12 for a failure to educate. Then I would wonder why someone didn't point me in another career direction other than college and University if I'm not even capable of managing PreAlgebra by the time I am 19. Then, I'd wonder what school in their right mind would be accepting me if my scores are so low. At some point before I got too much in debt, hopefully, I would wonder if I was just shark bait for my PELL grants, student loans, and other financial aid. Hmmm.

[UptonSinclair]

Not all Freshman are 19 year old students fresh out of high school. Many are returning students who have been away from school for decades. When I took the Accuplacer math exam, I barely qualified for Elementary Algebra. It had been 20 years since I took Business Math in high school. In my day, those who were not college bound were allowed to choose their classes without pressure from counselors. I planned to join the Air Force and didn't need college preparatory courses.

On a side note, it is fashionable to blame the public school system for a lack of college preparation but the same high schools that are graduating students who are unprepared are also graduating well prepared AP students. I believe parents are far more to blame than schools. It is the rare student who pushes themselves in school without parents motivating the studies.

[sanantone]

Most CC students in remedial courses are not of the non-traditional age. I graduated this century, and everyone took algebra I and II in Texas except for special education students. Texas just recently lowered math requirements. I mostly blame parents for students not caring about education, but they still shouldn't be allowed to walk away with a diploma.