CNA to RN

[clep3705]

All nursing programs for RN to be students at UTHSC are 4 semesters long. All are 60 hours of nursing courses. Four semesters/60 hours is the standard length for a BSN program. Accelerated BSN programs are 60 hours, typically done in 12 months, although some a little faster, some a little slower. There are differing definitions of accelerated. Hartwick calls their 18 month program accelerated: Hartwick-Accelerated 18 Month Program (RNOP)

There was a 12 month accelerated program at UTHSC. It had the same 60 hour course load, and ran summer/fall/spring. The 12 month program's last graduation was in 2010.

The original poster indicated an interest in becoming an RN. RN-BSN programs are for people who are already an RN but who do not have a BSN. These programs are 30 hours of course work, sometimes a little bit more, which means they can be completed in less than 4 semesters.

Four semesters of nursing school is of varying total calendar length depending on fall, spring, or summer starts. A summer/fall/spring/summer program takes 15 months. Program that spread the 4 semesters over fall/spring/summer off/fall/spring are sometimes called traditional programs. Thanks to Sanantone for correctly pointing out that the 15 month program is now called an accelerated program.

The University of Houston at Victoria offers an accelerated BSN that runs spring/summer/fall for a total of 60 hours in 12 months.

Drexel offers an 11 month BSN for people who already have a bachelor's degree. Accelerated Career Entry BSN - ACE - Division of Undergraduate Nursing

There is a wide variety of options for nursing programs including weekend only programs. There are direct entry MSN programs that let people skip the BSN and become an MSN and RN at the same time.

For baccalaureate degree holders willing to get an associate's degree, there is an option to do it in 10 months. Baccalaureate to Associate DegreeNurse Accelerated Pathway

So, what is accelerated? It seems to run from 10-18 months depending on who is writing the definition. Until a few years ago, there were more 12 month long BSN (not RN to BSN) 60 hour nursing programs than there are today. Some schools did away with them having experienced higher attrition rates than with their longer programs.

[sanantone]

All nursing programs at UTHSC are 4 semesters long.

The RN-BSN is 3 semesters long.

None are considered accelerated by the school.

On the school's website it says that their accelerated program is now the pacesetter program. UTHSC - Houston's accelerated program took 15 months to complete. The proof is below.
https://nursing.uth.edu/prospstudent/bsn...efault.htm

This is old data, but it seems to be consistent with what I've found so far.

The majority of nursing programs in the U.S. have an attrition rate of approximately 50% (Magnussen, 2001; NCIOM, 2004; Sheffler, 1997).

This comes from Wanda Taylor Douglas' dissertation at Appalachian State University. I can't post the link because it's a Word document.

[GoodYellowDogs]

Just a reminder, you can't get a California RN or LVN license if you graduate from Exclesior.

[clep3705]

Here is a link to the dissertation Sanantone mentioned. It doesn't open in all browsers. Firefox worked. http://www.lesn.appstate.edu/olsontoo/Po...ouglas.doc

[cookderosa]

Just a reminder, you can't get a California RN or LVN license if you graduate from Exclesior.

Which is where the OP lives. I think this thread is too far gone anyway

[sanantone]

Just a reminder, you can't get a California RN or LVN license if you graduate from Exclesior.

Good point. They won't recognize any program that doesn't require at least 810 hours of supervised clinical experience. California's restrictions are strange given that they will license LVNs who did not complete an accredited LVN program based on experience.

[Jonathan Whatley]

Just a reminder, you can't get a California RN or LVN license if you graduate from Exclesior.

Well, here was a report of a graduate whose qualifying pre-service credential in nursing was from Excelsior being admitted as an RN in CA through a new 'case-by-case basis' door opened within the past few years. The original blog post I linked to to, public at the time, is now private.

This person's case was pretty awesome, though – which is to say exceptional, which is to say we shouldn't generalize too much from him to the larger population of Excelsior graduates: former U.S. military medic, prior license as a California LVN (this would not have been earned through the Excelsior degree), experienced LVN instructor, with two master's degrees, etc.

[dmjacobsen]

If I may, I'll step in and offer some advice from inside the industry. Background: I've been a nurse for 7 years (LPN for 4 and RN for 3), EMT for 4 years, and I'm currently in an FNP program (graduate next summer).

If your end goal is to become an NP or PA, and you already have a Bachelor's degree, I would recommend going the PA route. PA school is more competitive to get into, but this will be your shortest route to your end goal. Don't worry about not having any patient care experience prior to this. PA school requires a TON of clinical hours (far exceeding NP programs), and you will be prepared to take care of patients just fine, so long as you take your education seriously. I have seen crappy PA's who came from a healthcare background and I've seen great PA's who came from a non-healthcare background. As with anything, what you end up with is proportionate to what you put into it.

You're going to spend one to two years doing pre-req's for PA school. You'll spend at least a year doing pre-req's for RN school (even for an accelerated program). PA school is going to be two years. RN school is going to be two years, maybe a year and a half for an accelerated program -- any program faster than that should be a red flag. You'll come out of PA school having met your goal and making anywhere from 30k to 50k more a year starting out (depending on geography and specialty) than you would with your RN. You'll come out of RN school with another 1.5 to 2 years of school left for NP. This is all assuming you're going to school full-time.

As for clep3705's assertion that accelerated programs are a "bad idea" with "excessively high attrition rates", I can only say that I have absolutely no idea what that information is based on. I performed a brief search on the subject, and only found a couple of references to attrition rates being higher, but nothing that denoted that these rates were "excessive". Nursing programs as a rule have high attrition rates. I suspect that higher attrition rates in these programs is in part due to the fact that every single student in these programs has a Bachelor's degree in another field, and perhaps these students are able to find jobs in their first chosen field while pursuing Nursing as their back-up plan, thus leaving no motive for remaining in the program. The body of knowledge and research on the subject is extremely limited.

Another point to consider while weighing PA vs NP is whether or not you think you will ever want to become an MD or DO. As a PA, you will be better-prepared to apply for MD school, as you will have already satisfied all of the pre-req's. Additionally, there are a handful of PA-to-MD programs out there that will reduce your time in med school, and I suspect that more of these programs will pop up in the coming years. The only NP-to-MD program I've found that cuts out any time in med school is a Caribbean med school, and we don't really want to muddy up this conversation with those schools.

To address your initial question -- whether or not to get your CNA license -- don't bother, unless this is a California-specific requirement. Your CNA experience will not help you in RN school. In my experience, those who had backgrounds as CNA's and MA's in my nursing program seemed very knowledgeable and accelerated for the first couple of months of the program. After the first couple of months, the playing field was leveled considerably.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[cookderosa]

If I may, I'll step in and offer some advice from inside the industry. Background: I've been a nurse for 7 years (LPN for 4 and RN for 3), EMT for 4 years, and I'm currently in an FNP program (graduate next summer).

If your end goal is to become an NP or PA, and you already have a Bachelor's degree, I would recommend going the PA route. PA school is more competitive to get into, but this will be your shortest route to your end goal. Don't worry about not having any patient care experience prior to this. PA school requires a TON of clinical hours (far exceeding NP programs), and you will be prepared to take care of patients just fine, so long as you take your education seriously. I have seen crappy PA's who came from a healthcare background and I've seen great PA's who came from a non-healthcare background. As with anything, what you end up with is proportionate to what you put into it.

You're going to spend one to two years doing pre-req's for PA school. You'll spend at least a year doing pre-req's for RN school (even for an accelerated program). PA school is going to be two years. RN school is going to be two years, maybe a year and a half for an accelerated program -- any program faster than that should be a red flag. You'll come out of PA school having met your goal and making anywhere from 30k to 50k more a year starting out (depending on geography and specialty) than you would with your RN. You'll come out of RN school with another 1.5 to 2 years of school left for NP. This is all assuming you're going to school full-time.

As for clep3705's assertion that accelerated programs are a "bad idea" with "excessively high attrition rates", I can only say that I have absolutely no idea what that information is based on. I performed a brief search on the subject, and only found a couple of references to attrition rates being higher, but nothing that denoted that these rates were "excessive". Nursing programs as a rule have high attrition rates. I suspect that higher attrition rates in these programs is in part due to the fact that every single student in these programs has a Bachelor's degree in another field, and perhaps these students are able to find jobs in their first chosen field while pursuing Nursing as their back-up plan, thus leaving no motive for remaining in the program. The body of knowledge and research on the subject is extremely limited.

Another point to consider while weighing PA vs NP is whether or not you think you will ever want to become an MD or DO. As a PA, you will be better-prepared to apply for MD school, as you will have already satisfied all of the pre-req's. Additionally, there are a handful of PA-to-MD programs out there that will reduce your time in med school, and I suspect that more of these programs will pop up in the coming years. The only NP-to-MD program I've found that cuts out any time in med school is a Caribbean med school, and we don't really want to muddy up this conversation with those schools.

To address your initial question -- whether or not to get your CNA license -- don't bother, unless this is a California-specific requirement. Your CNA experience will not help you in RN school. In my experience, those who had backgrounds as CNA's and MA's in my nursing program seemed very knowledgeable and accelerated for the first couple of months of the program. After the first couple of months, the playing field was leveled considerably.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Great advice!
I still will argue FOR the CNA....afterall, she thought she wanted to be a journalist too. I'm not condemning, just pointing out that there is nothing to lose with seeing healthcare from the inside before making a career change.

[sanantone]

Great advice!
I still will argue FOR the CNA....afterall, she thought she wanted to be a journalist too. I'm not condemning, just pointing out that there is nothing to lose with seeing healthcare from the inside before making a career change.

I agree with this. Accounting and nursing seem to be the trendy occupations for people to jump to these days because they're touted as being highly employable. Not everyone is cut out for nursing and I'm sure some people have become bored to death with accounting.