CLEP Unethical?

[CrazyCarla]

Hi,

I am new here but have been reading and searching the forum a bit. I have been thinking about getting my degree through testing for a couple years but hadn't gotten up the courage to try it. I didnt do well in a classroom setting due to dysgraphia and frequent illness, but can study on my own very well, and tests I can handle. So it seems well made for me!

I don't have any transferable credits from other schools (except maybe a 1 credit PE/hiking course), my first college attempt I ended with a bunch of incompletes due to illness which turned into Incomplete/Fails because I never completed them. My next try, just a couple years ago I wanted to combine classroom classes with testing, but I was told that because I had attempted most of the general education classes and failed them 15 years ago, that no college would ever take any CLEP credits from me because it is unethical to get CLEP credit in a course I have ever attempted.

I tried to Google it a bit and didn't see anyone calling it "unethical" but I did see a few college websites saying they don't allow CLEP for already attempted courses, but they also have other rules that not all colleges would have the same. Not really proof either way if its considered unethical, or not.

So, While I still REALLY want to test for college I also don't want to do things that are academically "unethical". I don't want to cheat to get a degree! I want to earn it.

Does anyone know if it is cheating if the college allows it? Do these Big 3 schools allow this? I couldn't find it on the tesc website.

[alleycat]

Clepping gen ed's is not unethical!!!!! Many schools will not let you take a clep exam if you have already failed the course at their school. The BIG THREE welcomes Clep and DSST takers with open arms. Many people working at these colleges do not know what they are talking about and they also try to scare students into thinking they are doing something by saving time and money. Every test you take is less revenue for the school.

Do not fear the Clep embrace it.

[irnbru]

You were given incorrect information.

That's the short answer. A longer answer is that each school sets its own policies on a variety of subjects. Some people giving advice in various schools either don't know or don't take the time to establish what their school's policies enable a student to do. Consequently, a student can end up with not so good advice. Did you ask why it might be considered unethical? If the answer was that the particular school had a specific, articulated policy, then fair enough. Otherwise, it's just weightless positioning and probably some confusion between ethics, morals and "I don't understand."

Taking the time to research school policy and finding workable solutions to your own particular situation is a great way to find out what your real choices are. Most advisers want to help their students but sometimes this means that students also have to help themselves.

Anyway, the school would no doubt have been happy for you to pay to take the class, rather than pass a test.

[CrazyCarla]

Thanks to both of you for the input.

I did ask "why" it's unethical, She said that is was because the CLEP is a test to prove you know something without classes and that if you took a class AND THEN the test then that its "cheating". I told her that was odd since I failed the classes for never going to them and that is was over a decade ago. heh. She acted like I'd called her a bad name or was a hardened criminal. :confused:

I had doubts she knew what she was talking about but since I could not find a policy about it on these sites, It was hard to guess if it was allowed or not.

Im excited to hear that it was just her own University policy! :hurray:

Now I can proceed figuring out what tests to take!! I am a web designer now, so hoping there is something at least sort of related. I see more school site perusing for requirements in my future.

[LaterBloomer]

I don't think it's unethical, but if you determine that it is, why not take an alternate CLEP, or DSST test? (I'm drawing a blank, but one of the Big 3 is now offering tests for $99. Include them in your consideration.) There's more than one way to get credit for humanities, or social sciences, or whatever. Am I being clear? If you attempted Art History while you were at a Brick and Mortar institution, why not try the DSST test "Art of the Western World," or some other test that would meet a general education requirement? Does that address your problem without getting into ethical or unethical behavior? You wouldn't be testing for a class that you failed, you'd be testing in an area that meets the same requirement. While I'm babbling, I'll go on to say that I don't think it's unethical because most institutions, if you fail a class, will allow you to take the class again. Re-take? Test out? What's the difference?

[CrazyCarla]

I dont think it is unethical personally, I was a bit shocked to be told it was!

BUT I am prepared, if most people think it is bad, to go with the crowd on that one. That old bit where if the whole world is wrong, its time to look at yourself. IF that was the case I could see trying to take all similar courses as you suggest. However I don't see a point in undergoing a hardship like that if it's just some school advisor trying to get more money and/or higher class enrollment for the school. Thus I thought I'd throw it out to a forum of test takers and see who's crazier me or her. hehe

[Potatoloco]

Might be against that school's Clep/DSST/testing policy, but I think using the term "unethical" is a bit of a reach and probably would be insulting to most people. Don't let it detract you from doing what you can to get your degree. This forum is great for figuring out what the best plan of action is for your given situation.

[irnbru]

There's not a great deal to be achieved if you're no longer with the school in question. If you were, then it would be a reasonable idea to take the time to check the school's policy on external credit, transfer credit, resitting exams, retaking courses and so on. An interesting concept to keep in the back of your mind is that any school's academic honesty policy should certainly be interpreted as their academic ethics policy.

This is usually a set of rules and expectations of behaviour covering important topics like plagiarism, impersonation and other forms of cheating. This is a completely different set of policies to how to deal with say, international credit, whether an external course is evaluated as lower or upper level or funding.

By describing external sources of credit as unethical, the person who you asked advice from was using emotive language, probably incorrectly and arguably misleadingly. Based on your read of their reaction, there was an element of appeal to authority behind their argument which detracts from their credibility by its open fallaciousness.

Meanwhile, the lesson still stands; it's worthwhile doing your own research and presenting a case backed up with facts. Or, if you need to ask someone to do something for you, do all the work yourself first, present it to them and ask them to tick the box.

edit: What the hey; which college was it? Every college is different but it's always good to know what's going on out there. Interesting side thought: CLEPs are intended as a standardised college-level test.

[P00057870]

There have been prior discussion, not on this specific topic, but more generally about other persons thinking those who test out of credits or even take online courses are somehow taking the easy way out. Sometimes different words have been used other than unethical, but things like cheating, or other inflammatory terms to those of us who chose this route instead.

Bottom line is that this "alternative" method is now being written up positively in various professional journals and even a recent article in Money magazine that it is beneficial for many adults returning to school and a good economic alternative. They especially highlighted getting earlier degrees (A.S., B.S.) at lower expense and saving the bucks for upper level degrees.

Some careers or advanced degree colleges may have trouble accepting these degrees. Again there have been past discussions on this subject, but many of us have been in situations where we wanted to complete something started previously for our own purposes. Others have been in situations where bosses have given ultimatums to get a degree or else. We who are here each have different reasons and situations, but ultimately this is a fine way to accomplish your goals for most of us.

Many of us actually work in the academic environment and will confirm it is all about the schools having to stay in business, which means making money. As long as you decide your goals, make sure that the degree you are pursuing it meets the requirements, that is all that matters. Many of the graduates posting here have gone on to get Masters at prestegious Universities, which tells us that there is nothing wrong with these degrees.

Usually people with the attitude you have experienced would change there mind once they understand that it is your ability to study on your own and take a test and pass. Many have commented on some of the tests being harder than they expected. Others have experience in matters and find some of them easy. Again it is individual. But it is the same as studying and taking the final exam for credit. Many of the colleges let you "test out" ("challenge") subjects you know a lot about. This is no different.

Do what is best for you and ignor all the nay sayers.

[burbuja0512]

Lol.. too funny. I am sorry I just have to laugh about the CLEP comment. I do see that some professors and some students are threatened by testing. It takes their profession and all of the time that they spent in school and calls it into question. After all, do you need them if you can self-teach? I can totally understand why it would make someone nervous or uncomfortable, but if the point of college is to learn - why do you need to spend hours in a classroom to do it?


I don't really talk about testing to many people anymore unless I think that they would really understand. People just think that it sounds so easy or that it's a way to cheat, or that a degree with CLEP isn't valid. However, if anyone does ask me, I will use the foreign language CLEP as an example. As I just mentioned in another thread, I lived in Mexico for 6 years. When I speak Spanish, people look at this blond-haired blue eyed gringa in awe and wonder how I learned Spanish so well. Yet I have never taken a Spanish class beyond high school. Should I be forced to sit through two years of basic Spanish classes just to prove that I know the language? No way! That would be a waste of time and money for me and would irritate classmates that were trying to learn. I don't think that there is a person out there that would doubt the validity of a CLEP in this situation.

So... if you think about the foreign language concept and apply it to any other subject, it's really all the same. You're still learning the material and passing something that's equivalent to a final exam on the topic. If you've already taken a class on the topic and failed, it's still the same concept. Regardless of your score in that class, you need to have the knowledge to pass the exam. Most people don't fail a class based on stupidity or total lack of understanding in the topic. Most adults fail because of other life obligations, so if you learn the material, it shouldn't be cheating at all!


LOL... oh well, let the people who don't understand CLEP and DSST spend thousands of dollars in the classroom. There's nothing wrong with that and assuming that they do the work and have a good teacher, they'll learn and will get their money's worth.