Biology/Natural Sciences major—transferring into the Big 3

[wow]

I've been reading this forum for a while, but I finally have some questions I can't find the answers for, so here's my first post. Please be gentle.

Yes, it's a little long, so ... I'll put the questions first for people who don't want to read the whole post. You can get more context about the research I've already done if you keep reading after the questions.

Questions:
1. Has anyone here had Excelsior accept (or reject) study.com/straighterline science courses toward a natural sciences major?
2. Has anyone here successfully used PLAs to meet science degree requirements?
3. Does TESU offer any wiggle room on "two semesters of organic chemistry with lab" requirement? For example, could I take org chem without lab, but microbiology with lab? I'm having difficulty finding decent tuition on organic chemistry with lab. (I just moved to a new state, so don't qualify for in-state tuition anywhere.)


Background:
I have a BA in social sciences and am seeking a second BA in Natural Sciences or Biology. I am seeking this degree as a formality because having it on my resume would be useful in my field; I am not looking to go into lab work or medicine or any other field that would require lab-intensive coursework. I've talked to all three of the schools about this kind of transfer and they've explained the process (some allow me just to apply, at COSC I would need permission of the Director of Admissions).

I want to complete this degree for as little money as possible (around $5000), given that I went the traditional route with the first degree and blew a lot of money on it. The only natural sciences credits I can transfer from my previous degree would be 6 credits in physics (at COSC and TESU; Excelsior won't accept them because I took them over 10 years ago). However, I have taken A LOT of biology courses through Coursera, EdX, MIT OCW etc, and feel confident that I could get through any of the bio and chem courses on study.com and straighterline fairly efficiently. That's great for TESU (which, as a bonus, charges only $379/credit tuition to study.com members) and COSC (which gives 10% off tuition and fees to straighterline members).

But Excelsior is the sticking point. They don't list course equivalents on study.com for any of their bio or chem courses (TESU and COSC do). I called my admin rep today and, of course, she said I'd have to apply in order for them to tell me if any of those courses can be applied toward the natural sciences major requirements. From what I've read on these forums, that type of response is not uncommon from Excelsior.

If Excelsior is going to be difficult about allowing transfer credits to a natural sciences major (from study.com/straighterline, junior colleges, or CLEPs), it's not worth it to me to apply. The degree would end up costing more than an online biology degree from my state school, even factoring in the 20% study.com discount they offer.

Thanks for reading the post, and I appreciate your help!

P.S. I have read the thread on BA in Environmental Studies at TESU, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of crossover in the course plans for the two majors.

[TwinMom]

I've been reading this forum for a while, but I finally have some questions I can't find the answers for, so here's my first post. Please be gentle.

Yes, it's a little long, so ... I'll put the questions first for people who don't want to read the whole post. You can get more context about the research I've already done if you keep reading after the questions.

Questions:
1. Has anyone here had Excelsior accept (or reject) study.com/straighterline science courses toward a natural sciences major?
2. Has anyone here successfully used PLAs to meet science degree requirements?
3. Does TESU offer any wiggle room on "two semesters of organic chemistry with lab" requirement? For example, could I take org chem without lab, but microbiology with lab? I'm having difficulty finding decent tuition on organic chemistry with lab. (I just moved to a new state, so don't qualify for in-state tuition anywhere.)


Background:
I have a BA in social sciences and am seeking a second BA in Natural Sciences or Biology. I am seeking this degree as a formality because having it on my resume would be useful in my field; I am not looking to go into lab work or medicine or any other field that would require lab-intensive coursework. I've talked to all three of the schools about this kind of transfer and they've explained the process (some allow me just to apply, at COSC I would need permission of the Director of Admissions).

I want to complete this degree for as little money as possible (around $5000), given that I went the traditional route with the first degree and blew a lot of money on it. The only natural sciences credits I can transfer from my previous degree would be 6 credits in physics (at COSC and TESU; Excelsior won't accept them because I took them over 10 years ago). However, I have taken A LOT of biology courses through Coursera, EdX, MIT OCW etc, and feel confident that I could get through any of the bio and chem courses on study.com and straighterline fairly efficiently. That's great for TESU (which, as a bonus, charges only $379/credit tuition to study.com members) and COSC (which gives 10% off tuition and fees to straighterline members).

But Excelsior is the sticking point. They don't list course equivalents on study.com for any of their bio or chem courses (TESU and COSC do). I called my admin rep today and, of course, she said I'd have to apply in order for them to tell me if any of those courses can be applied toward the natural sciences major requirements. From what I've read on these forums, that type of response is not uncommon from Excelsior.

If Excelsior is going to be difficult about allowing transfer credits to a natural sciences major (from study.com/straighterline, junior colleges, or CLEPs), it's not worth it to me to apply. The degree would end up costing more than an online biology degree from my state school, even factoring in the 20% study.com discount they offer.

Thanks for reading the post, and I appreciate your help!

P.S. I have read the thread on BA in Environmental Studies at TESU, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of crossover in the course plans for the two majors.

I'm sure there are others that will chime in with way more experience but...I looked into Excelsior awhile back for my boys and found that not that many Study courses transferred in. In fact, no computer classes at all. The list was pretty short which is why we decided against it. 

If TESU lists a specific course: Chemistry 1 with lab and Chemistry 2 with lab you have to take those classes.

I looked into the NSM Bachelors from TESU and couldn't find enough/any UL Science classes but Computer classes count in that category so you could do that. i think there have been others that have pieced together that degree with UL Math courses.

[wow]

I've been reading this forum for a while, but I finally have some questions I can't find the answers for, so here's my first post. Please be gentle.

Yes, it's a little long, so ... I'll put the questions first for people who don't want to read the whole post. You can get more context about the research I've already done if you keep reading after the questions.

Questions:
1. Has anyone here had Excelsior accept (or reject) study.com/straighterline science courses toward a natural sciences major?
2. Has anyone here successfully used PLAs to meet science degree requirements?
3. Does TESU offer any wiggle room on "two semesters of organic chemistry with lab" requirement? For example, could I take org chem without lab, but microbiology with lab? I'm having difficulty finding decent tuition on organic chemistry with lab. (I just moved to a new state, so don't qualify for in-state tuition anywhere.)...

I'm sure there are others that will chime in with way more experience but...I looked into Excelsior awhile back for my boys and found that not that many Study courses transferred in. In fact, no computer classes at all. The list was pretty short which is why we decided against it. 

If TESU lists a specific course: Chemistry 1 with lab and Chemistry 2 with lab you have to take those classes.

I looked into the NSM Bachelors from TESU and couldn't find enough/any UL Science classes but Computer classes count in that category so you could do that. i think there have been others that have pieced together that degree with UL Math courses.

Thanks so much for your reply!

I was getting that feeling about Excelsior. After I posted yesterday, I talked to a staff member at StraighterLine and she said (in more professional/diplomatic language than I'll use) that Excelsior has been weird and inconsistent in what they will accept, even though they're a corporate partner.

For cheapest overall, then, it looks like COSC because I could test in for most of the credits. I could test in for 24 credits with the GRE subject test in biology. However, the degree would be a BS with a major in General Studies with a concentration in Biology ... I have to figure out if that would be adequate for my resume. My spouse has a BA in Biology and doesn't think so, but he's in a different field, so I'll need to talk to folks in mine.

If he's correct, it looks like TESU. Liberal Arts in NSM would have the same issue as General Studies in Biology, so I'd likely need to go for a BA in Biology. The struggle there would be finding an affordable organic chem course (which could just mean waiting for my in-state residency to kick in and using the community college—still pricey, but not *as* pricey as out of state). Then I could try to get as many cheap credits as possible by taking my intro courses at study.com and New Mexico Junior College, which has amazing tuition and a decent selection of natural science courses. Upper levels are going to be harder. Crossing my fingers that they are generous with UExcel.

One thing I'm pondering is doing the Bio GRE, hopefully getting a good score, applying to COSC, getting the credits on my transcript, and then transferring the UL ones to TESU. That would take care of two UL courses for about $600 (the GRE test fee + COSC registration and other fees). Unfortunately, the transcript says only "Upper Level Biology, 8 credits," so I don't know if that would work, or they wouldn't count them because of potential overlap with my other ULs.

Or maybe PLAs or challenge exams taken at other colleges for the Upper Levels? I've already done a couple UL MOOCs that had syllabuses that were the same as their undergrad equivalent.

Lots to think about! Looks like I'll be spending a few hours with a calculator today.

[allvia]

One thing I'm pondering is doing the Bio GRE, hopefully getting a good score, applying to COSC, getting the credits on my transcript, and then transferring the UL ones to TESU. That would take care of two UL courses for about $600 (the GRE test fee + COSC registration and other fees). Unfortunately, the transcript says only "Upper Level Biology, 8 credits," so I don't know if that would work, or they wouldn't count them because of potential overlap with my other ULs.

This won't work - what you're listing here is called Credit Laundering.  TESU (& all the Big3) will require the credit to be sent from the original source; so if TESU doesn't accept the GRE for credit (I don't know if they do or not) it doesn't matter that COSC does.

[wow]

Ah, okay. That makes me sound so evil!

It looks like it wouldn't be necessary anyway, since I could do PLAs for work experience and the MOOC courses etc I'm doing to prepare for the Bio GRE. The PLAs may or may not be accepted, but it's worth a shot.

And I have more wiggle room in my budget now that I've found out I don't need to take the cornerstone since I'm seeking a second bachelors. My admissions advisor gave me wrong info about that. So the tuition/hours I was planning to use there can go toward something else.

But the goal of $5000 looks impossible for an actual degree in Natural Science/Biology, thanks to all the residency fees.

[bjcheung77]

Ah, okay. That makes me sound so evil!

But the goal of $5000 looks impossible for an actual degree in Natural Science/Biology, thanks to all the residency fees.

*LOL* You evil do-er! Nah, it's just a thought, many people have thought about that on this board, you're not the only one...
Where did you get the BA Social Sciences? Just curious, are you paying fully out of pocket or does your current employer have tuition assistance/reimbursement? Does it have to be in Biology or Environmental Studies/Sciences? I agree with the hubby, a general degree or liberal arts degree with a concentration isn't the same thing...

[wow]

Ah, okay. That makes me sound so evil!

But the goal of $5000 looks impossible for an actual degree in Natural Science/Biology, thanks to all the residency fees.

*LOL* You evil do-er!  Nah, it's just a thought, many people have thought about that on this board, you're not the only one...
Where did you get the BA Social Sciences?  Just curious, are you paying fully out of pocket or does your current employer have tuition assistance/reimbursement?  Does it have to be in Biology or Environmental Studies/Sciences?  I agree with the hubby, a general degree or liberal arts degree with a concentration isn't the same thing...

The BA is actually in Linguistics, from a snooty liberal arts college in Pennsylvania. I think tuition there now is more than $200,000. I graduated a couple decades ago.

I have to pay out of pocket as I am self-employed. My husband works for the state, but that only qualifies *him* for reduced tuition, and only after we've lived here for a year.

My accountant says there is a "possibility" I could do some of the courses as a business expense, but that feels a little fishy to me. And even so, that may or may not reduce my taxes by a significant amount. It depends on a lot of factors.

I write/edit in the topics of human health, veterinary science, food science and natural resources—a rather broad umbrella, which is why biology seemed like the best fit. The clients/editors I work with love me, but it's hard getting new ones in those fields with a linguistics degree, despite my piles and piles of work samples.

I have been looking into Health Studies as well—UW-Milwaukee's flex program and University of the People, which could make the degree fairly cheap, but it's not as good a fit for what I do as biology. Plus, UofP is not RA and, even though I have no reason to doubt the quality of education they provide, I think clients will, simply based on the name. 

Finally, I compared BA programs in Health Studies to an MLA with Health Studies Concentration from Fort Hays. The Master in Liberal Arts at Fort Hays is under $10,000. If I decide to focus more exclusively on medical-related clients, I think a master in health studies would look better than a bachelor's resume-wise.

[cookderosa]

No matter which school you choose, you'll have to come up with a plan to earn the sciences. As I'm sure you know, lab sciences can be expensive and take a lot of time. As such, I wouldn't make it one percent harder on myself than it has to be. If you're finding EC to be tricky to navigate, drop them and pursue either TESU or COSC.

I will toss something else into the mix that you might not have considered. Have you thought of a master's degree INSTEAD of a bachelor's?

I also have a BA in Social Science, and a while back I'd considered nursing or med school - so I started accumulating my science courses. It felt frustrating to have so many undergrad credits not rolled into a degree, so I did try to do that (TESU) but it was just too much lower level general science - it felt a little like a waste of time. But, I did take a graduate level biology course through Harvard University's extension program and loved it.
You can do a master's at Harvard University's extension without an undergrad degree in science. Their master's degrees are 12 courses and you have to take 2 on campus. They do have short sessions in January or summer when people can travel to do that - the rest is online.

https://www.extension.harvard.edu/academ...te-degrees

Bioengineering & Nanotechnology
Biology
Biotechnology

[wow]

No matter which school you choose, you'll have to come up with a plan to earn the sciences. As I'm sure you know, lab sciences can be expensive and take a lot of time.  As such, I wouldn't make it one percent harder on myself than it has to be. If you're finding EC to be tricky to navigate, drop them and pursue either TESU or COSC.  

I will toss something else into the mix that you might not have considered.  Have you thought of a master's degree INSTEAD of a bachelor's?

I also have a BA in Social Science, and a while back I'd considered nursing or med school - so I started accumulating my science courses. It felt frustrating to have so many undergrad credits not rolled into a degree, so I did try to do that (TESU) but it was just too much lower level general science - it felt a little like a waste of time.  But, I did take a graduate level biology course through Harvard University's extension program and loved it.
You can do a master's at Harvard University's extension without an undergrad degree in science.  Their master's degrees are 12 courses and you have to take 2 on campus.  They do have short sessions in January or summer when people can travel to do that - the rest is online.

https://www.extension.harvard.edu/academ...te-degrees

Bioengineering & Nanotechnology
Biology
Biotechnology

Thanks for your reply, and you have lots of good ideas to think about. Funny, it did occur to me on Friday to look more carefully at the entry requirements for various MS in Biology (and related fields). An MS would be more expensive, but at some places it wouldn't much more than a BA from TESU.

Of course, many of these programs say they require a bachelor's in biology "or related field," but most also have petition processes in place for prospective students who don't meet admission requirements to a T. So I've added "making calls to online masters in biology programs" to my to-do list for next week.

I hadn't come across Harvard Extension yet and I like the entry requirements, so thank you for pointing it out! The tuition is probably out of my reach, though being self-employed, these things fluctuate ... if I have an especially good year, it could work.

I wonder, do employers etc get confused by the title of the degree? MLA in Extension studies, field: Biology, makes it sound like I have a master's in running extension programs in biology.

Oh, back to the bachelor's discussion—for people looking for reasonably priced upper-level biology courses online, I found that UC San Diego Extension offers quite a few. No admissions process or prerequisites, and they offer at least one UL lab. They also have one intro level bio lab. Logan University offers UL online lab courses in human biology, $1100/4 credits.

For lower levels, New Mexico Junior College has Bio 1 & 2, Microbiology, and Anatomy & Physiology online with at-home lab. For out of state students, its $356/course (4 credits) or $828 per semester (I believe up to 18 credits,  but I'd have to doublecheck). NMJC only has one chemistry lab course online, and it's not geared toward majors. Study.com has two semesters of chem labs. From the course equivalency list on the  study.com site, it looks like they'd be accepted toward a TESU or COSC bio major, but I haven't reviewed this with an advisor so can't say for certain.

UNE offers completely online organic chem. It's not cheap. Oregon State (?) in Corvallis offers online organic chemistry with a  2-week residency for lab. If you have access to a community or state college where you can take organic chemistry, that's probably cheaper.

[sanantone]

University of Florida is a lot cheaper than Harvard Extension and doesn't require campus visits. I got into their MS program with only having an associate's in biology. You'll want to take a good microbiology and biochemistry course before entering the program, though. It'll be cheaper than taking their intro courses for students lacking a background. Western Kentucky University only requires a certain number of biology credits, but they're more expensive than UF.

There are also biological science and chemistry programs designed for educators. Their admissions requirements are usually more lax, but the curricula center on teaching science rather than learning advanced science.