Best master's degree to get if my ultimate goal is Ed.D

[manley0702]

I'm 32 years old and ultimately looking to get my Ed.D online and work either at a university in administration or for an education technology company as a sales manager or executive (I have 10+ years in ed tech sales). 

With those goals in mind, what would be the best online, self-paced master's degree to get? I see my options as:

a) Get the easiest, quickest degree possible. Since the only reason I'm getting my masters is to meet the requirement to get into a doctoral program, maybe I should just go with something "easy". What would those options be?

b) Get my MBA. An MBA is well-respected and gives me a fallback option if the Ed.D doesn't come through. Plus, I already have years of experience working in the education technology space so that could help me advance in this space.

c) Get an MS in Management or Management and Leadership. As with the MBA, it could help me in the private sector, and while it's not as prestigious as an MBA, I wouldn't have to take as much math as in an MBA.

I appreciate everyone's responses.

[bjcheung77]

Your options or recommendations depend on various factors. What job/title do you currently have? What bachelors and where did you get it from? What's your ultimate goal, the Univ Admin or the Ed Tech Sales? I assume you're looking cheap/easy/fast Masters degree as long as it provides you a great ROI in value... Which schools/programs have you looked at so far for your Masters?

[Merlin]

If your ultimate goal is an Ed.D. then why not just focus on that?

In many cases, you don't need a master's degree to start on a doctoral degree. For many, you earn a master's along the way to the doctorate. For those, they still require you to have completed a bachelor's degree first. The idea is that if you end up failing to complete the doctorate, you still come away with something. This is particularly popular in research-based degrees, which I'd imagine an Ed.D. would be, as opposed to professional doctorates.

I know there are Ed.D. programs out there that expect you to already have a teaching-related master's degree prior to applying to their doctoral program. But my point is that you don't have to limit yourself to those programs. Why waste the time and money to complete a master's degree that you don't need and where the credits are not guaranteed to be applicable towards your doctoral degree unless you have to?

Alternatively, you can work backward. Just figure out what doctoral program you want to pursue and then figure out what the entrance requirements are. Those will often suggest what degree or experience you need in order to get admitted. You could also try emailing the faculty member responsible for the program and ask for recommendations.

For professional degrees, it doesn't matter as much since you generally have to do them independently anyway, but it varies.

That's just my $0.02 after spending a few months researching graduate degree programs.

[manley0702]

Your options or recommendations depend on various factors.  What job/title do you currently have? What bachelors and where did you get it from?  What's your ultimate goal, the Univ Admin or the Ed Tech Sales?  I assume you're looking cheap/easy/fast Masters degree as long as it provides you a great ROI in value...  Which schools/programs have you looked at so far for your Masters?

Thanks so much for the reply, BJ. Answers to your questions are below:

1. My current job/title is Account Executive. Essentially, I am the sales rep for a territory of states selling software to provosts and deans at universities. My base salary is $85k, and I get commission on top of that averaging a total earnings of ~$120k-~130k per year.

2. My bachelor's degree is from Auburn University with is an AACSB-accredited college. The degree is a B.S. in Business Administration. I got that degree in 2009 when I was 22 years old.

3. My ultimate goal is probably to stay in the ed tech side. Currently I'm a sales rep for a fairly large, well-known company. As a next step, I'd probably look to get a CMO or VP of sales position at a smaller company OR a sales manager or implementation team manager at a larger company. As an ultimate goal, I'd like to end up getting a CEO-type role with a smaller company or a VP sales role at a larger company. The university admin position would be something I'd be interested in later in my career (maybe in my mid-50s), hopefully after already having made some money on the ed tech side. 

4. Yes, I would be looking for something cheap and easy and fast for a Master's degree because

a) I'd be doing it mostly to fill the requirement of getting into an Ed.D program (though certainly a masters in business helps in the ed tech side) and

b) I'm currently making pretty good money and don't want to have to give that up to pursue a top-level masters degree. On top of that, I'm married and have 2 children under the age of 5. My wife stays home so we can't manage without me working.

5. So far I'm focusing on the following but am certainly open to others:

WGU MBA
WGU MSML
Capella Flexpath MBA
Purdue Global ExcelTrack MBA
Walden Tempo MBA

The reasons I like these programs are that:

a) I think I can finish in 18 months. I'd like to finish in 12 months, but 18 is the absolute longest I want to spend. I have no illusions that this will be easy and that I can finish in one term, but I do hope I can keep it to a year and a half at the most. I'm no genius, but I'm above average intelligence (got a 25 on my ACT in high school) and can dedicate probably 12-18 hours per week.

b) They're ACBSP-accredited. That's a bare minimum I'm willing to accept. 

c) I think (correct me if I'm wrong), there are no GRE or GMAT requirements. I have a fairly strong preference to avoid taking either.

d) I very much like the CBE aspect where I can use information I already know to move through more quickly 

e) working a sales job where I'm on the road a couple times a month, I like the flexibility to go at my own pace instead of having a hard deadline which may at times conflict with my work schedule.

With that said, I'm not entirely ruling out a more traditional, term/semester-based method, but it's certainly not preferable. In other words, if I choose a more traditional path, there would have to be several reasons in that program's favor that outweigh the negative of not having the flexible, CBE option. I've seen LSU Shreveport offers an MBA for <$13k. They're also AACSB-accredited which is a plus. Are there other more respected universities that offer MBA programs for <$15k?

Again, thanks for your time in helping me make a decision.

---

If your ultimate goal is an Ed.D. then why not just focus on that?

In many cases, you don't need a master's degree to start on a doctoral degree. For many, you earn a master's along the way to the doctorate. For those, they still require you to have completed a bachelor's degree first. The idea is that if you end up failing to complete the doctorate, you still come away with something. This is particularly popular in research-based degrees, which I'd imagine an Ed.D. would be, as opposed to professional doctorates.

I know there are Ed.D. programs out there that expect you to already have a teaching-related master's degree prior to applying to their doctoral program. But my point is that you don't have to limit yourself to those programs. Why waste the time and money to complete a master's degree that you don't need and where the credits are not guaranteed to be applicable towards your doctoral degree unless you have to?

Alternatively, you can work backward. Just figure out what doctoral program you want to pursue and then figure out what the entrance requirements are. Those will often suggest what degree or experience you need in order to get admitted. You could also try emailing the faculty member responsible for the program and ask for recommendations.

For professional degrees, it doesn't matter as much since you generally have to do them independently anyway, but it varies.

That's just my $0.02 after spending a few months researching graduate degree programs.

Thanks for the reply, Merlin. From what I understand, Ed.D isn't considered a research-based degree. The Ph.D in education is research-based, but the Ed.D is not. 

From the research I've done, it seems that VERY few institutions offer an Ed.D without first having a master's degree. The ones I've found that do offer the Ed.D without a master's are so expensive that it's cheaper to just get an MBA for $15k or so.

I like your suggestion on working backwards. I might do that. From what I'm seeing, the Ed.D is much more expensive than an MBA. Have others found that to be the case? I'm finding MBAs for $15k, but I can find an Ed.D for less than $30k. Am I missing something?

[bjcheung77]

Ah ha! Good job, I see you've done your research in regards to both AACSB vs ACBSP and EdD vs PhD!  That is what I thought as well - EdD would be more of an applied or professional development degree vs a PhD which is geared for Academia & Research.
 
Coincidentally - AACSB is geared towards Academia & Research and ACBSP is geared towards applied knowledge with an emphasis on teaching (at the community college level or higher because they also accredit Associates, which AACSB does not).

There are a few Ed.D programs available from several for-profit institutions.  A few can be had for under $30K, for the cost, I would recommend getting your Ed.D from ACE (American College of Education), this school has been mentioned on the sister board and this board as well...  They have 4 Ed.D program options to choose from at ~$24K.

ACE Ed.D Link: https://www.ace.edu/programs?program=68
Tuition Link: https://www.ace.edu/tuition-and-admissio...on-details

The requirements for entry is a Masters.  It doesn't have to in Education... Other options for the Ed.D would be from Capella or Trident, or Walden and the likes of them, but they are much more pricey.  I would recommend searching both this board and the sister one (degreeinfo) for more schools just in case they pop up.

For your masters, you may want to consider doing two.  An MSML from WGU and also their MBA as 5 courses overlap, it should take you just a year to complete the both of them - well in your time frame of 18 months, and the price is right.  Should cost $4K for each one, both also have the ACBSP recognition.   If you prefer another, the Purdue name sounds good for the price...

If you have the time of 2 years or 20 months, you might consider doing the coursera, edx, futurlearn, udacity or upgrad MOOC options, they team up with Australian/UK and US universities and the cost is much less than the traditional way of learning, plus you get a well known degree.  I would check them out!  Example an AACSB MBA from the UK for $5-7K, see this thread: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...utureLearn

[manley0702]

Ah ha! Good job, I see you've done your research in regards to both AACSB vs ACBSP and EdD vs PhD!  That is what I thought as well - EdD would be more of an applied or professional development degree vs a PhD which is geared for Academia & Research.
 
Coincidentally - AACSB is geared towards Academia & Research and ACBSP is geared towards applied knowledge with an emphasis on teaching (at the community college level or higher because they also accredit Associates, which AACSB does not).

There are a few Ed.D programs available from several for-profit institutions.  A few can be had for under $30K, for the cost, I would recommend getting your Ed.D from ACE (American College of Education), this school has been mentioned on the sister board and this board as well...  They have 4 Ed.D program options to choose from at ~$24K.

ACE Ed.D Link: https://www.ace.edu/programs?program=68
Tuition Link: https://www.ace.edu/tuition-and-admissio...on-details

The requirements for entry is a Masters.  It doesn't have to in Education... Other options for the Ed.D would be from Capella or Trident, or Walden and the likes of them, but they are much more pricey.  I would recommend searching both this board and the sister one (degreeinfo) for more schools just in case they pop up.

For your masters, you may want to consider doing two.  An MSML from WGU and also their MBA as 5 courses overlap, it should take you just a year to complete the both of them - well in your time frame of 18 months, and the price is right.  Should cost $4K for each one, both also have the ACBSP recognition.   If you prefer another, the Purdue name sounds good for the price...

If you have the time of 2 years or 20 months, you might consider doing the coursera, edx, futurlearn, udacity or upgrad MOOC options, they team up with Australian/UK and US universities and the cost is much less than the traditional way of learning, plus you get a well known degree.  I would check them out!  Example an AACSB MBA from the UK for $5-7K, see this thread: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...utureLearn

Thanks so much for all the info! A few questions:

1. Why are you recommending I do both the MSML and the MBA? I would imagine that two degrees are better than one (obviously), but if my goal is an Ed.D, does it really matter? 

2. Further to point #1, would it not look suspicious to have two degrees on my resumé from one university in such a short time span? Would it be better to at least diversify and get the degrees from different universities?

3. If I got my MSML from WGU and wanted to get my MBA somewhere else (say Capella, Walden, or Purdue), would any credits transfer? Approximately how many would transfer, or in other words, what percentage of the program could be transferable to an MBA using MSML credits?

4. Why are you so confident that I can finish both the MSML and MBA in 18 months? I know that people on here talk about completing masters degrees in 6 months or less, but there's no way that can be the norm. I would imagine the people who do that are either super intelligent or have loads of time on their hand. I can dedicate probably 12-18 hours per week on average. Is 18 months for both degrees reasonable? My math skills are super shaky having been out of college for over a decade.

5. Last question, and maybe most important to me, if I have to choose between the MSML and the MBA, which should I go with? It seems like MBA will can get you behind the scenes-type positions like CEO or CFO whereas MSML gets you more of a customer-facing position like VP of Sales, Project Manager. I enjoy interacting with customers on the frontlines so I'm tempted to go with MSML; however, I feel like MBA is safer as it provides you with more "hard" skills like accounting and finance. Part of the reason I'm getting an advanced degree is for the security of broadening my options so I feel like maybe secruity is what I'm looking for. All in all, if what I've stated is accurate, it feels like I'm choosing between what I enjoy and what makes me feel more secure. Is that accurate? I've read that MBA is for experienced workers while MSML is more for people straight out of college. Is that accurate? I've got 10+ years experience so I don't want a degree that's perceived as being for kids straight out of college.  

Again, thanks for all your help.

[Merlin]

Thanks for the reply, Merlin. From what I understand, Ed.D isn't considered a research-based degree. The Ph.D in education is research-based, but the Ed.D is not. 

From the research I've done, it seems that VERY few institutions offer an Ed.D without first having a master's degree. The ones I've found that do offer the Ed.D without a master's are so expensive that it's cheaper to just get an MBA for $15k or so.

I like your suggestion on working backwards. I might do that. From what I'm seeing, the Ed.D is much more expensive than an MBA. Have others found that to be the case? I'm finding MBAs for $15k, but I can find an Ed.D for less than $30k. Am I missing something?

I have to admit that I don't know much about Ed.D., but based on what I've seen so far, it sounds like it is a professional doctoral degree, similar a DBA in the business world. In that case, have you also considered looking into a Ph.D. instead? That will open far more doors and the difference in time investment is comparable. You may also be able to find less expensive PhD programs out there... or find options for subsidies or teaching to reduce your costs.

As a point of comparison, I have been considering doctoral degrees, including professional degrees like a DBA. I don't know how comparable the Ed.D. and DBA are, but as professional degrees, you're limited in what you can do with them. They have value at the highest levels in corporate and government work, but are all but useless in academia, for example. Where a Ph.D. is applicable to all of those sectors, and is generally better respected to boot. Given this, I have deprioritized any professional degree programs in my list since if I elect to spend 3-5 years working on a terminal degree, I don't want to limit my opportunities.

Personally, I am currently leaning toward pursuing a second master's degree, probably in CS or Data Science, but I'm not doing so specifically as a precursor to any followup degree. I'm doing so mainly to maximize my time since I know I can earn a master's degree in less than 2 years while a doctoral degree is 3-5 years on average. That said, I'm still considering research-based doctoral programs too. If I find one that checks all my boxes, particularly if I can earn an MS along the way, I may end up doing that instead. Though I'm not in a hurry, especially with the Covid-19 stuff going on.

1. Why are you recommending I do both the MSML and the MBA? I would imagine that two degrees are better than one (obviously), but if my goal is an Ed.D, does it really matter? 

2. Further to point #1, would it not look suspicious to have two degrees on my resumé from one university in such a short time span? Would it be better to at least diversify and get the degrees from different universities?

There is very little value in getting both the MBA and MSML since both are very similar business degrees. An MBA is generally more recognizable and valuable in the corporate world, while the MSML generally has more value in government and non-profit roles. Though having both could make sense for someone who works in senior management and doesn't plan to pursue a higher degree. In your case, since your end goal is a doctoral degree, I would suggest focusing on one or the other, depending on which will be closer to the target Ed.D. degree.

As for two degrees from the same school, there are some who suggest that it is best to diversify your education to expose you to different ideas, etc. But it really only matters if your goal is to become a college professor (as some schools value the diversity.) Beyond that, you should focus on the school that works best for you academically and financially.

3. If I got my MSML from WGU and wanted to get my MBA somewhere else (say Capella, Walden, or Purdue), would any credits transfer? Approximately how many would transfer, or in other words, what percentage of the program could be transferable to an MBA using MSML credits?

There is no way to know. Possibly zero. It really depends on how close the programs are and the second school's transfer policies. This also applies at the doctoral level. Unless your master's degree and the target doctoral degree are very similar in the courses required, you may get very little or no transfer credits towards the additional degree.

4. Why are you so confident that I can finish both the MSML and MBA in 18 months? I know that people on here talk about completing masters degrees in 6 months or less, but there's no way that can be the norm. I would imagine the people who do that are either super intelligent or have loads of time on their hand. I can dedicate probably 12-18 hours per week on average. Is 18 months for both degrees reasonable? My math skills are super shaky having been out of college for over a decade.

Most WGU students complete a single master's degree in 2-3 terms (12-18 months). Yes, some people can complete them quicker, especially if they have a lot of extra time, but it is by no means the norm. I completed my MBA in 6 months, but I was putting in 5+ hours per day (35+ hours per week) and I entered the program with 20+ years of business experience plus a bachelor's degree in business administration.

If you're looking at 12-18 hours per week, it is unlikely that you'll be able to complete either the MBA or MSML at WGU in under 12 months unless you already have a lot of related experience to draw on.

5. Last question, and maybe most important to me, if I have to choose between the MSML and the MBA, which should I go with? It seems like MBA will can get you behind the scenes-type positions like CEO or CFO whereas MSML gets you more of a customer-facing position like VP of Sales, Project Manager. I enjoy interacting with customers on the frontlines so I'm tempted to go with MSML; however, I feel like MBA is safer as it provides you with more "hard" skills like accounting and finance. Part of the reason I'm getting an advanced degree is for the security of broadening my options so I feel like maybe secruity is what I'm looking for. All in all, if what I've stated is accurate, it feels like I'm choosing between what I enjoy and what makes me feel more secure. Is that accurate? I've read that MBA is for experienced workers while MSML is more for people straight out of college. Is that accurate? I've got 10+ years experience so I don't want a degree that's perceived as being for kids straight out of college.  

It isn't exactly cut and dry. The MBA is more recognizable and is well-received in the corporate world, but it doesn't tie to any particular role. As a generalist business degree, it is probably the most common degree you'll see in most businesses at all levels. The MSML is typically more common in government and non-profits, but again it doesn't necessarily indicate any particular role. People pursue MSML because they are interested in organizational leadership, so it applies well to anyone in a management or HR role, and this also includes C-level people as much as an MBA does.

Ultimately it comes down to why you want the degree. MBA is targeted to business professionals who want a broad understanding of business, where the MSML is more applicable to people who want to focus on the management and organizational leadership aspects of business.

The true value of an MBA is usually the name recognition of the school and the network you build while getting it. Particularly if you're young and haven't built a real resume yet. However, that usually only applies to elite business schools. Since WGU is a no-name school, there isn't any name recognition or network benefits for getting the degree there. As such, its better suited for people with prior experience since you'll still need a strong resume to balance the degree.

I hope that helps.

[bjcheung77]

I studied my Level 3 Certificate in Principles of Business and Administration at College of Contract Management United Kingdom. It is great college in United Kingdom.

BTW, this might be spam or someone trying to advertise their website. Anyways, here goes!

1, 2, 3. I was advising WGU for both MSML & MBA because of overlap and it would be a "one & done" grad school for you. What I mean by this is, it'll hit your grad school requirement and also complete what you're looking for. MBA is geared towards business or corporations of all sizes, the MSML is a Management & Leadership degree geared for Private/Government or NGO, etc - not really for the Blue Chips & Fortune 500's etc.

You should be able to transfer up to 12 credits into other Masters programs from WGU, but WGU does not allow transfers into their Masters. If you wanted to "break" them up into two universities, I would have said Brandman MSOL & Deakin MBA, do the Brandman MSOL first as you should be able to complete that in 6 months. Using the extra cash, you can take your 2 years for the Deakin MBA that has both AACSB & EQUIS, this adds to your current undergrad AACSB from Auburn.

4. Competency based degrees have that name because it's geared towards what you already learn, if you reach 70% or whatever their guideline is, of competency, you pass that course and go to the next one. You have an AACSB undergrad and 10 years experience, you're not a freshman nor a recent high school grad - if you were, a different answer would be more useful for that individual, I would have recommended to get more certifications/experience, etc.

5. MBA and Executive MBA's are geared towards those who want to become leaders in the corporate workplace (yes, the big agencies that rake in multi-billions you see out there), whereas the MSML again is for those NGO/Private/Public agencies, etc. It won't really matter which you're going for really, your goal is the Ed.D anyways, get the ball rolling as entry requirements is just that - a masters.