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Why Charter Oak State College is better than Thomas Edison State College
#1
Hey all,

After spending over a hundred hours perusing the forums, colleges, and scouring the Internet in general, I've come to the conclusion that COSC is superior to TESC for majority of students who want to complete a degree mainly through testing out of exams and taking a few easy/cheap courses here and there (mainly through Penn Foster). This degree plan is not the cheapest like TESC's, but it's more "breathable" from a price/utility standpoint. In other words, it could cost you probably about $5,000 – $6,000 to do it, whereas TESC's "per credit" plan which is less than $3,000 would have you take 8 TECEP exams where there are no organized review materials for, no practice exams, and little/no forum information (which is important). On the other hand with TECEPs, they only count as Pass/Fail so that may be better for you.

I made some major updates to the Charter Oak Degree Wikia page . You can see it here: COSC Degree Plans - Degree Forum Wiki . It's a comprehensive guide made for graduating with a B.S. Degree in Business Administration through the cheapest, quickest, and easiest ways possible ("bang for buck"). It won't be as cheap at TESC's "per credit" option, but there is also no pressure to take 8 TECEP exams through them either (which have minimal/non-existent review materials, no practice exams, minimal/non-existence student feedback through forum posts). You can save $2–$3K by going that way, but I think it will be much harder – of course convenience always comes at a cost i.e. higher total cost but it may be an attractive option for people who want a more defined and structured program that has good study materials and prep material available.

The major reasons why I think Charter Oak State College's Degree is better for most people than TESC is because:

A) Most importantly: It's easier (you don't need to take any TECEP exams to do the degree which have little to no information from test takers, and generally seem to be harder. There are little to no instantcert.com information for these TECEP exams, and little forum information for these exams). A simple question you have to ask yourself is: Would I rather use instantcert.com flash cards which have an excellent reputation, practice exams, and advice from other students who have taken the exam, or do TECEP exams where there are no practice exams, no review books, and little/no student advice from forum posts? With TECEP exams, there are more uncertainties on what you may be tested on, and you'll have to read a textbook. Yes for depth TECEP exams would probably require you to know a subject more in-depthly, but many of us just want that sweet piece of paper saying we got the credit Smile
B) It's cheaper (For me it was $500 –$1,000 less expensive if I did the same program through TESC – same coursework, and same exams). TESC charges you $3,279 annually – so you better complete your degree in less than 12 months or fear being charged another $3,279 a second year. For COSC, you have to take a course within 6 months of applying, but you can easily knock off several credit requirements before even being admitted knowing that they will transfer in (thanks to the master exam list). So for COSC, there is less pressure to complete the degree in a year.
C) They have a defined master exam schedule which clearly states which exams will transfer in and for what. Thomas Edison State College does not. The advisement system at TECEP is disorganized and frustrating. COSC from my own experience, and feedback from other students, seems to indicate that they are more responsive, perhaps cordial, and accessible than TESC. I felt like with TESC I had to wade through the waters on my own and micromanage everything almost to a fault.
D) They accept FEMA credits for free if you are a student – TESC doesn't. I personally didn't need them, but it's nice to know that that option exists if you need to fill any gaps in credits.

The major downsides of Charter Oak State College are that you have to to take two courses through them (they are just money makers) – their stupid cornerstone course (which you take the first semester), and the capstone course. TESC only has a capstone course requirement, but can be replaced by a hard TECEP exam, or the much cheaper ($237), and easier Penn Foster "strategic management" course which can be completed in a few days/a month or so compared to a regular course where you'd have to do stupid hws, quizzes, discussions, and spend like $1,000 for the course. However, even with these two courses that you have to take through COSC, it still always comes out cheaper than TESC's "enrolled option" plan by about $500 – $1,000 from my calculations and estimates. The other minor downside is that you're technically getting a "concentration" in Business Administration not a "Major" but I don't think employers would ever really know or care.

Other upsides with TESC is that the TECEP exams don't count for GPA, though if you intend to progress to graduate school, you may need some graded coursework particularly in upper level courses for graduate schools to be interested. Exams being taken for grade or no grade are a double edged sword. In general, you want to get at least a 3.00 for many graduate level programs, so getting at least a B in UExcel exams is important if you care about that, though the absence of a grade can be a disadvantage too.

However, even with these two courses that you have to take through COSC, it still always comes out cheaper than TESC's "enrolled option plan" by about $500 – $1,000 from my calculations and estimates, which may or may not be a dealbreaker. If you are interested or think you have what it takes to to TESC's TECEP exams –it will cost you at least $111/exam * 8 = $888, but more likely around $2,000 –*$4,000, it may be riskier to take given the lack of study materials out there, and you will have to probably need to use a textbook a lot since there are no review books/review prep materials readily available. It will probably cost the resourceful/savvy person about $3000 –$4,000 depending on how many credits they've already had, and how they decide to take any other credit requirements (i.e. through exams, or coursework like through Penn Foster).

Hopefully, TESC can become more competitive in the future in their cost for their enrolled options plan, and more importantly, have a more organized, and structured table/guidelines as to how courses will transfer in as – until then the COSC degree is probably going to be the best "bang for the buck" degree in terms of ease, accessible study materials, and convenience. It's not as cheap as TESC's "per credit" option, but it's also not as hard because of TESC's "per credit" 24 credit residency requirement. When and if these study materials become more available for TECEP exams, then they will become more attractive options for test takers. Also, I didn't take into account Excelsior because the cost was far more compared to either TESC or COSC, and it doesn't seem as easy to finish a B.S. in Business Administration degree through them – it seems you are more likely to complete a generalized "liberal arts" degree through Excelsior. Also, personally for me, I felt that the name was kinda lame (imo, they should have stuck with Regents College, which to me sounded much better – even http://bain4weeks.com/collegenamegame.html discusses this issue), but this wasn't a deal-breaker by any means.

Overall, I would recommend anyone to seriously consider both TESC and COSC and consider the pros and cons of each option. The primary contention that I make is that TECEPS are a worse option compared to UExcel examinations because there are simply no practice exams, instantcert.com materials, or student feedback forum posts unlike that for UExcel – if you are interested in taking 8 TECEP exams, then this guide isn't for you. These are my personal thoughts on the matter, and I hope it helps anyone in completing their own degree.
#2
I'll wait. :coolgleam:
Don't miss out on something great just because it might also be difficult.

Road traveled: AA (2013) > BS (2014) > MS (2016) > Doctorate (2024)

If God hadn't been there for me, I never would have made it. Psalm 94:16-19
#3
I had written up a nice rebuttal. But now I don't care. You invalidated everything you said by saying "I didn't take into account Excelsior because I felt that the name was lame" The rest of your comments are just as baseless.
TESC BSBA CIS
WGU MS Information Security and Assurance

ALEKS
Intermediate Algebra - College Algebra - Intro to Stats

CLEP
A&I Lit - Principles of Management - Principles of Marketing - Business Law - Macro - Micro - Into to Sociology - SS & H - Humanities - English Comp

DSST
Principles of Supervision - Intro to computers - Intro to Business - MIS - Business Ethics - HR Management - Intro to Law Enforcement - Environment and Humanity - Tech Writing - Human Cultural Geography - Principles of Financial Accounting - Ethics in America - Principals of Finance

SL
Business Communications - Acct. II - Intro to C++

Penn Foster
Strategic Management

TESC
Networking Technologies - TECEP
Systems A and D

TEEX
Cyber Security for Everyone, IT Professionals

Microsoft
MS Virtualization - 70-659

Free-electives - Private Pilot
#4
stretcharmy Wrote:I had written up a nice rebuttal. But now I don't care. You invalidated everything you said by saying "I didn't take into account Excelsior because I felt that the name was lame" The rest of your comments are just as baseless.

No I didn't – I also stated that I didn't take into account Excelsior because it is more expensive and harder to fulfill requirements through them – distorting a message much? I think, and I believe that most people would agree that the name game is an extremely relevant factor. See: The College Name Game - BA in 4 weeks who discusses this issue at length and who basically pioneered the concept of testing out of a degree to begin with.

In my opinion, I think most people you'd talk to would say that TESC sounds the best, then COSC, and "Excelsior College" just sounds like Devry or Kaplan. Back when it was called, "Regents College" it didn't sound as flashy. The first two at least sound like normal colleges. Not Ivy league mind you, but typical institutions. Regardless, wherever you go, they are all regionally accredited degrees, and if it fulfills or enables career progression then more power to you.

I think perhaps you should not be so emotional next time, and you're always welcome to respond why you disagree rather than stating my entire argument is "invalidated" because of a personal difference in opinion.
#5
You do have to study harder for TECEPs, but if it means saving over $2,000 over your COSC plan...... Taking a TECEP is still much easier and faster than taking a college course. Interestingly, your plan uses Uexcels which are probably just as difficult as TECEPs, more expensive, based off of specific textbooks just like TECEPs, and are less convenient to take because you have to travel to a Pearson test center. The upside is that they are awarded grades; the downside is that they are awarded grades. Scoring a "C" or "B" will bring down a high GPA. The extra time you would spend on studying for TECEPs is balanced by not spending two separate semesters completing the capstone and cornerstone. You don't even need the Penn Foster course for Strategic Management; there is a TECEP for that. There is a lot of feedback for this specific TECEP, and there are also Instantcert flashcards. Remember that a few TECEPs are aligned with Saylor courses.

Even though Uexcels and TECEPs are more difficult, studying for them is a simpler process. Not much feedback is needed when you know the test is based off of a specific textbook. Many people have failed CLEPs and DSSTs because the feedback is from before exams were refreshed and/or the Instantcert flashcards weren't well-aligned. You kind of have to go by the official guides and put together a study guide from a hodgepodge of sources unless you decide to depend on Saylor's aligned courses. There is not much feedback on using Saylor courses to study for CLEPs and DSSTs, but there is a lot of feedback that supports that studying the textbooks is usually sufficient for passing a Uexcel or TECEP. You also use Penn Foster courses, which are more expensive and can be more time-consuming. Some of them have synchronous webinar requirements, which can greatly increase the time of completion of the course because of scheduling. Some Penn Foster courses also require a proctored exam that you have to take on ground. TECEPs can be taken online.

If you're uncomfortable with testing in general, then COSC might be the better option. You can also use portfolio assessments to complete the residency requirement at TESC. The first 12 credits are $363. Every subsequent 6 credits is $206. TESC could use a comprehensive chart, but they do have equivalencies for TECEPs, CLEPs, and DSSTs listed on their website. They also have an equivalency chart on Straighterline's website.

I never understood the problem with Excelsior's name. They still have way more students than TESC and COSC with their "lame name." Even TESC has way more students than COSC. Excelsior's liberal arts students generally get a good return on their investment. Of course, most of their students are mid-career, but so are TESC and COSC students.

Quote:A new report released this week from PayScale, a provider of compensation data and software, lists the top schools for each college major (Slide 6 of 7), based upon earnings. Among college graduates nationwide, Excelsior College earned the top overall ranking when it comes to the highest median salary for those with a bachelor’s degree in liberal arts – $79,000 by mid-career (an increase from a median starting pay of $47,000). The University of California, Berkeley is listed as the top school for computer science majors and the University of Notre Dame is the top school for business majors, according to PayScale.

Excelsior College Ranked Top School for Liberal Arts Majors in Terms of Earnings
Graduate of Not VUL or ENEB
MS, MSS and Graduate Cert
AAS, AS, BA, and BS
CLEP
Intro Psych 70, US His I 64, Intro Soc 63, Intro Edu Psych 70, A&I Lit 64, Bio 68, Prin Man 69, Prin Mar 68
DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
Int Alg, Coll Alg
TEEX
4 credits
TECEP
Fed Inc Tax, Sci of Nutr, Micro, Strat Man, Med Term, Pub Relations
CSU
Sys Analysis & Design, Programming, Cyber
SL
Intro to Comm, Microbio, Acc I
Uexcel
A&P
Davar
Macro, Intro to Fin, Man Acc
#6
Name is completely irrelevant especially if you have experience in your field then the degree is more a plus. The school name is not a hiring deciding factor. I've never seen an ad for a job that says, "University of ___ preferred".
MA in progress
Certificate in the Study of Capitalism - University of Arkansas
BS, Business  Administration - Ashworth College
Certificates in Accounting & Finance 
BA, Regents Bachelor of Arts - West Virginia University
AAS & AGS
#7
Also, there are problems with your assumption that COSC is superior for the majority of students because you're assuming that the majority of students are comfortable with testing. Most of the students at the Big 3 complete the overwhelming majority of their degrees using coursework. Many people are uncomfortable with high-stakes testing. For those who want to take most of their coursework at the Big 3, TESC's Comprehensive Tuition Plan is the cheapest.
Graduate of Not VUL or ENEB
MS, MSS and Graduate Cert
AAS, AS, BA, and BS
CLEP
Intro Psych 70, US His I 64, Intro Soc 63, Intro Edu Psych 70, A&I Lit 64, Bio 68, Prin Man 69, Prin Mar 68
DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
Int Alg, Coll Alg
TEEX
4 credits
TECEP
Fed Inc Tax, Sci of Nutr, Micro, Strat Man, Med Term, Pub Relations
CSU
Sys Analysis & Design, Programming, Cyber
SL
Intro to Comm, Microbio, Acc I
Uexcel
A&P
Davar
Macro, Intro to Fin, Man Acc
#8
Oh Boy! Sad I hope this forum doesn't start playing the "my school is better than yours" nonsense. I fully support anyone's decision on which one is best FOR THEM. I orignally had a degree plan and was ready to hit the send button on my application to COSC. I delayed and ended up finding out that TESC met my degree requirements better since they accepted my business cleps as upper level and accepted my CCAF credit as upper level Management credit. This worked out for ME, but I won't go claiming either one is better than the other.

Everyone, I'm sure Kitten Mitten's meant to post "Why COSC is better than TESC for ME".

Kitten (love Sunny by the way), try to understand that people take where they went to school personal. You had some good points which was completely lost when you indirectly attacked the school choice of members on here. COSC can be much cheaper and better for some students, excelsior for others and TESC for the rest, and (surprise), a non-Big 3 school may be a better choice for others.

Good luck, and get that degree done!

PS - To be completely honest, I'm not a fan of the names of any of the big 3. To me Charter Oak sounds better, and I'm not a big fan of the name Excelsior, but I think all three names lack that umpf. Just like I think the name IUPUI is pretty lame.
CLEPS Passed: 10 DSST Passed: 11 TECEPS: 1

PrLoko-isms
Don't waste time by trying to save time. The only sure way to complete your degree is to knock out credits quickly and efficiently.

Don't let easiness bite you in the rear. Know your endgame (where you want to be) and plan backward from there. Your education is a means to an end.

Be honest professionally, socially and academically. There are people (especially little ones) who look up to you and they're going by your example.

Be proud. Whether you're an Engineer or Fast Food worker, there is honor and dignity in hard work.

Picking on people weaker than you only proves that you are a weak person.
#9
I just wanted to chime in about the whole name thing.

While I think some attention is paid to names of colleges, I should also point out that what sounds "cheesy" to one will sound perfectly normal to someone else. For example, New York State's motto is excelsior so the name Excelsior College is appropriate for a college located in the capital of New York State. I don't think it's any cheesier than the name Empire State College, which is the name of a college belonging to the State University of New York system and obviously derived from a popular nickname for New York State. There are lots of things in Connecticut named Charter Oak and the charter oak is actually a significant part of the history of Connecticut.

Just my two cents.
Associate in Arts - Thomas Edison State University
Bachelor of Arts in Humanities - Thomas Edison State University
pursuing Master's degree, Applied Linguistics - Universidad Antonio de Nebrija

*credit sources: Patten University, Straighterline, Learning Counts, The Institutes, Torah College Credits, Kaplan Open College, UMUC, Thomas Edison State University (guided study liberal arts capstone)
#10
Sanantone, I think you make several good points, and your advice in the forums and your degree wikis personally helped me a lot Smile

sanantone Wrote:You do have to study harder for TECEPs, but if it means saving over $2,000 over your COSC plan...... Taking a TECEP is still much easier and faster than taking a college course. Interestingly, your plan uses Uexcels which are probably just as difficult as TECEPs, more expensive, based off of specific textbooks just like TECEPs, and are less convenient to take because you have to travel to a Pearson test center. The upside is that they are awarded grades; the downside is that they are awarded grades. Scoring a "C" or "B" will bring down a high GPA. The extra time you would spend on studying for TECEPs is balanced by not spending two separate semesters completing the capstone and cornerstone. You don't even need the Penn Foster course for Strategic Management; there is a TECEP for that. There is a lot of feedback for this specific TECEP, and there are also Instantcert flashcards. Remember that a few TECEPs are aligned with Saylor courses.

A UExcel and TECEP exam are about the same price. TECEP exams are $37/credit so $37 * 3 = $111/one exam + test admin fee let's say $25.00 = ~$140 – $150.
UExcel exam fees are $95 + $50 test admin fee for Pearson test center = $145.00. Let's say they're about the same.

The most important reason why UExcels are superior, imho, is because there is test taker data: 1) instantcert flash cards 2) degreeforum.net instantcert forums for test advice 3) pass/failure rate info for UExcel exams 4) practice exams you can take.

All of these allowed me to take the UExcel exams without using ANY textbooks. I didn't need a textbook for DSST Substance Abuse, DSST Business Ethics, UExcel Organizational Behavior, UExcel Human Resources Management, UExcel Labor Relations, etc and I never really had a background in any of the subject. It was the combination of the flash cards, forum advice, and practice exams that allowed me to pass and do well on all the exams.

Yes, the other advantage with TECEPs are that they are not given a grade –*but I think that getting a B or A in the UExcels I described above is not that difficult. If a student is in a position where they can't get a B in some of these UExcel exams, then graduate level work may be too much. Of course, they could be a bad test taker, but still.

More importantly, I think the threshold most students will need for graduate level work is a 3.00 –*after looking at most of the types of programs that one of these degrees will open doors to (we're not talking ivy league here), most have indicated a 3.00 would be acceptable (many MBA programs come to mind like West Texas A&B's).

Quote:"The extra time you would spend on studying for TECEPs is balanced by not spending two separate semesters completing the capstone and cornerstone. You don't even need the Penn Foster course for Strategic Management; there is a TECEP for that. There is a lot of feedback for this specific TECEP, and there are also Instantcert flashcards."

Yes, this is true, though I've read that the TECEP exam is pretty indepth and difficult even with instantcert. You do get to avoid having to take the pointless cornerstone course (it really is), and the capstone course, though the upsides with COSC is that you'll probably save a few hundred bucks in the end. I think that distinction needs to be made.


Quote:Even though Uexcels and TECEPs are more difficult, studying for them is a simpler process. Not much feedback is needed when you know the test is based off of a specific textbook. Many people have failed CLEPs and DSSTs because the feedback is from before exams were refreshed and/or the Instantcert flashcards weren't well-aligned. You kind of have to go by the official guides and put together a study guide from a hodgepodge of sources unless you decide to depend on Saylor's aligned courses. There is not much feedback on using Saylor courses to study for CLEPs and DSSTs, but there is a lot of feedback that supports that studying the textbooks is usually sufficient for passing a Uexcel or TECEP.

I would say that from the data provided for UExcel, that they are more documented, have more student/test taker information, and accurate/relevant flash cards. From here: InstantCert: CLEP Online Study Guides it shows data for, and there is little data available about the TECEPs. Hopefully in the future there are more subjects and more student data/forum advice for these TECEP Exams. But I know that as of now the forum advice (which was extremely helpful for me), the flash cards, and UExcel practice exams were extremely helpful for passing (I received all As and Bs in my UExcels). For myself, and I think for most students, they don't want to be inconvenienced with a textbook, and that is a major advantage with the UExcels imo.

InstantCert Subjects: Excelsior Exams

Arts and Sciences
Abnormal Psychology
Ethics:Theory and Practice
Foundations of Gerontology
Psychology of Adulthood & Aging
Research Methods in Psychology
Social Pscyhology
World Population
Business
Human Resource Management
Labor Relations
Organizational Behavior
Nursing
Essentials of Nursing Care: Health Safety

Thomas Edison Exams

Business
Operations Management
Public Relations Thought & Practice
Strategic Management"

Quote:If you're uncomfortable with testing in general, then COSC might be the better option. You can also use portfolio assessments to complete the residency requirement at TESC. The first 12 credits are $363. Every subsequent 6 credits is $206. TESC could use a comprehensive chart, but they do have equivalencies for TECEPs, CLEPs, and DSSTs listed on their website. They also have an equivalency chart on Straighterline's website.

I prefer testing, but I don't like lack of information having to rely on a textbook, because that means I have to scour through it all, and not know what may or may not be tested on it. Having official practice tests/questions is extremely important whether it's the MCAT, SAT, GRE, GMAT, UExcel, DSST, etc. – it allows you to know what the test takers focus in on –*having student feedback, and test company review is even better – that's what UExcel has and why I gravitated towards them. In some cases, I found that the practice exams were all that were needed to at least pass (and I'm not a genius, perhaps slightly above average). If TESC had a comprehensive chart that showed how UExcels would transfer in it would be good.

Quote:I never understood the problem with Excelsior's name. They still have way more students than TESC and COSC with their "lame name." Even TESC has way more students than COSC. Excelsior's liberal arts students generally get a good return on their investment. Of course, most of their students are mid-career, but so are TESC and COSC students. "

Not sure why they have more students –*I think it could be because Albany is a metropolitan area where there are far more people, more colleges, and people living in New York versus Connecticut or New Jersey. I'm from the upstate NY region myself, and I know some people who have an Excelsior College degree and it always rubbed me the wrong way like it was an "inferior degree." I mean this is personal discretion in the end, and up to an employer, but name does matter, if not the most – it's not what you learn, it's who you know/where you're from (i.e. Wall Street picks people from ivy league schools only, or going to Berkeley or Stanford is better for engineering). It's the difference between Nike and Wal-Mart brand even if both could possibly have come from the same factory. I know for me, I didn't like the name "Excelsior College" and though it wasn't a primary reason for not going with them, it didn't help either. I personally like Thomas Edison State College better –*it sounds more "legit", Charter Oak State College sounds slightly "iffy" but at least it's a state college in Connecticut. Here's another example, I have a friend who went to "Bowling Green State University" in Ohio, and it comes off like a very low-tier school. The most important thing is how the name makes you feel – does it sound authentic (yes we know they're all authentic), would someone wonder/question if it's like University of Phoenix, Kaplan University, or Devry, which are all garbage?

Quote:Excelsior College Ranked Top School for Liberal Arts Majors in Terms of Earnings - Excelsior College Ranked Top School for Liberal Arts Majors in Terms of Earnings

Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock on college supplied income/earnings especially when it's coming from the college themselves. You should see how law schools grossly exaggerate their graduates incomes and employment through manipulation of statistics. I think a person's earnings/income is more based on how hard they work, how much work experience, hands on experience, connections, etc they have – in other words, if it's not an ivy league caliber school, the college degree is more of a nuisance, a "piece of paper" more than anything else. It is something that allows you to get a bump in pay particularly in very bureaucratic and hierarchical institutions (i.e. state and fed jobs). I personally work for the state, and my foreign degree from India is obviously not regionally accredited, so for me, the absence of a bachelor's prevents me from getting paid at a higher grade.


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